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Good points. They seemed to have assumed that only avid environmentalists would want an electric car and if they dangled one with environmentally friendly labeled interior materials that these people would swoon and throw money at them without seriously evaluating other aspects.

That said, I was pleased with the driving of the i3 during the test drive I did. The interior was acceptable IMO. And while I disliked the looks when it first came out, that is starting to grow on me.

Each car in this space provides different driving experience, utility, range and value propositions. Each will find a certain market share, except I guess for the Miev. Some will be winners and some will be losers. Over time, the market will evolve and the car companies will figure out what works and what doesn't. In the meantime, I'm ecstatic to see the number of options available and the increasing range capabilities vs. when I went shopping and bought my Leaf in 2013.
 
Funny story BMW i related that doesn't warrant its own thread... Neighbor bought (yes bought, not leased) an i8 for his kid going to college for him to make the 9 miles RT commute to campus. I noticed it was never plugged in, when the chance came up I asked him about it, he said he doesn't bother, as it only goes 17 miles on electric so he just drives it on gas in sport mode all the time. Doesn't have an L2, and usually parks it on the street under a tree where leaves and bird crap fall on it. Apparently $135k isn't significant in their lives, nor are they particularly concerned about environmental issues or EVs, but he does like the way it looks (after the bird crap is washed off of course)
 
palmermd said:
I was sitting at a light and saw an i3 the other day and had the same thought. If you had an i3 and a Tesla S60 Tesla Model 3 and put them in a room and brought people in to pick which one they liked and only gave the price and let them look at the cars without any reference to electric. Just based on comfort and convenience as well as style, the i3 will have a hard time getting a vote.

The i3 will never be the most popular car, but it is still the most efficient EV available. I'd still vote for it as I live in a near city environment. The Telsa S60 is way too large for tight spaces. The model 3 should be very popular but too much car for people only requiring short distances.

The likeability of the vehicles depends on the person. Plenty of people like the look of the i3 because it stands out. It's quite interesting to drive along with a fancy car (or park next to) like a Porsche and notice more pedestrians look with interest at the i3.
 
Looks like BMW is eager to get rid of some of 2014 lease returns sitting on the lots, they offer 0.9% APR and $1000 credit on a CPO purchase, I think they should try harder.

Are there opinions that buying a used i3 is a good idea? Did they depreciate a lot similar to Leafs?
 
Beleaf said:
It's quite interesting to drive along with a fancy car (or park next to) like a Porsche and notice more pedestrians look with interest at the i3.

Yes, but you really don't know what they're truly thinking.
 
Valdemar said:
Looks like BMW is eager to get rid of some of 2014 lease returns sitting on the lots, they offer 0.9% APR and $1000 credit on a CPO purchase, I think they should try harder.

Are there opinions that buying a used i3 is a good idea? Did they depreciate a lot similar to Leafs?
Only if you have an uncontrollable urge to spend $1200/year on tires.
 
Valdemar said:
Looks like BMW is eager to get rid of some of 2014 lease returns sitting on the lots, they offer 0.9% APR and $1000 credit on a CPO purchase, I think they should try harder.

Are there opinions that buying a used i3 is a good idea?
Even if I were ok w/the styling, there's no damned way I'd want an i3 REx. It seems the odds aren't too low that you'd end up one w/not very good reliability. Since they seem so troublesome while still within warranty (where presumably BMW would want to minimize warranty costs by at least making them have little trouble until expiration), I'd hate to see what happens after their warranty's up.

Join https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/ and just watch how often someone posts about some non-minor problem (e.g. drivetrain malfunction, restraint system malfunction, CEL, J1772 handle lock mechanism malfunction (which gets unnecessary cycles with every charge), etc.) or posts a pic about something w/their check engine light (CEL) on. Ignore stuff like nails in tires, rattles and problems w/their telematics app. Compare that to here.

I posts my thoughts at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22118#p22118 and in a bunch of posts later.

Just today, I spotted someone w/a REx drivetrain malfunction and thus was stranded. Someone else on 12/6 also needed to be flatbedded. Another guy posted a pic w/a CEL 17 hours ago. Heater failure on 12/6. Someone else reporting a restraint system malfunction that day too. 12/5: vehicle charging problems. Stops within 1 minute of charging. Has tried other "chargers", as well.

The BEV seems more reliable.

If someone gave me a BEV for free, I'd probably drive it for a bit and sell it right before warranty expiration. If it were a REx, it'd be also gone before warranty expiration and probably after it's second repair trip to the "spa". I barely have enough the time to take my cars in for maintenance, let alone unscheduled repairs.
 
cwerdna said:
Valdemar said:
Looks like BMW is eager to get rid of some of 2014 lease returns sitting on the lots, they offer 0.9% APR and $1000 credit on a CPO purchase, I think they should try harder.

Are there opinions that buying a used i3 is a good idea?
Even if I were ok w/the styling, there's no damned way I'd want an i3 REx. It seems the odds aren't too low that you'd end up one w/not very good reliability. Since they seem so troublesome while still within warranty (where presumably BMW would want to minimize warranty costs by at least making them have little trouble until expiration), I'd hate to see what happens after their warranty's up.

Join https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/ and just watch how often someone posts about some non-minor problem (e.g. drivetrain malfunction, restraint system malfunction, CEL, J1772 handle lock mechanism malfunction (which gets unnecessary cycles with every charge), etc.) or posts a pic about something w/their check engine light (CEL) on. Ignore stuff like nails in tires, rattles and problems w/their telematics app. Compare that to here.

I posts my thoughts at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22118#p22118 and in a bunch of posts later.

Just today, I spotted someone w/a REx drivetrain malfunction and thus was stranded. Someone else on 12/6 also needed to be flatbedded. Another guy posted a pic w/a CEL 17 hours ago. Heater failure on 12/6. Someone else reporting a restraint system malfunction that day too. 12/5: vehicle charging problems. Stops within 1 minute of charging. Has tried other "chargers", as well.

The BEV seems more reliable.

If someone gave me a BEV for free, I'd probably drive it for a bit and sell it right before warranty expiration. If it were a REx, it'd be also gone before warranty expiration and probably after it's second repair trip to the "spa". I barely have enough the time to take my cars in for maintenance, let alone unscheduled repairs.

Yes, one needs to "hug" their Leaf, notwithstanding the battery. But all of us, maybe most, knew after using
battery powered devices over the last 30 years what to expect from battery degradation on a BEV.
 
And right on cue, as of 12/10/16 1:20 am Pacific time from the i3 FB group:
14 hours ago: someone also reported a sudden shutdown while driving w/REx refusing to charge the battery even after pulling over
6 hours ago: REx in the shop for 3rd drivetrain malfunction. Person trying to get it lemon lawed. They said 1/3 of was while on the highway and it abruptly stopped, which scared them.
21 hours ago: '14 i3 is being repaired for the third time in 4 months for check engine light and fuel door malfunction

There may be others. These are ones that I easily found and aren't dupes of previous ones I reported.
 
^ None of that is at all surprising. Just about everyone knows while BMWs are great driving when it comes to reliability or providing any sort of trouble free ownership experience at reasonable cost you are totally looking in the wrong place. Sure you will hear from people who say they've gotten hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems, or that it's the owners fault for not doing perfect maintenance, or you need to find an independent shop or whatever, believe them if you want but do so at your peril unless you have a lot of money to burn or don't mind making car repairs a hobby.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
^ None of that is at all surprising. Just about everyone knows while BMWs are great driving when it comes to reliability or providing any sort of trouble free ownership experience at reasonable cost you are totally looking in the wrong place. Sure you will hear from people who say they've gotten hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems, or that it's the owners fault for not doing perfect maintenance, or you need to find an independent shop or whatever, believe them if you want but do so at your peril unless you have a lot of money to burn or don't mind making car repairs a hobby.
Anyone that follows car reliability knows the above re: BMW. Unfortunately, there are folks who have no idea and those in denial about BMW's spotty reliability, esp. some BMW fanboys.

I guess I'm semi-surprised about some issues as you'd think that BMW would've learned their lesson from the ActiveE. And, it calls into question what sort of and how much testing they did w/the i3 in the US.

I'm just blown away that they shipped US models w/flawed KLEs (basically their 2nd OBC) that would apparently blow when charging at full power here, so before that, they had a band-aid by turning down the charging power until a redesigned part was available: http://insideevs.com/bmw-to-finally-replace-i3-onboard-charger-to-restore-promised-7-4-kw-charging-rate/. And, the broken motor mounts/bolts, chronic CELs (check engine lights) and drivetrain malfunctions?

It didn't take very long in the US market to discover the blown KLEs and CELs. I don't recall drivetrain malfunctions taking that long to crop up either.
 
Zero motorcycles has been doing something similar for years, now. They ship a bike that performs in an awesome manner when it runs, but is often Buggy right out of the box, requiring frequent trips to the nearest competent Zero dealer (and that often involves shipping the bikes both ways) to become usable. Then they stop supporting older models after a very few years. These things are just expensive toys for the rich.
 
Heh. So, today, as of 11:15 pm 12/11/16 Pacific time, I spotted these on the i3 FB group in the last ~23 hours.
- CEL
- REx didn't engage when the big battery was depleted. Car had be towed.
- drivetrain malfunction error (says it's the 5th time for him)

One person who I think I mentioned earlier w/an EME failure said it was their 2nd EME failure.
 
lorenfb said:
Beleaf said:
It's quite interesting to drive along with a fancy car (or park next to) like a Porsche and notice more pedestrians look with interest at the i3.

Yes, but you really don't know what they're truly thinking.

A significant number of pedestrians come over while walking past and look at the car. If I show up they are interested in the details of the vehicle, and as yet no-one has been negative about it. Well, some are concerned about the purchase cost but that is just how an EV is around here at the current stage. I actually have a Porsche as well, but it gets way less interest. Only P-car fans spend any time looking at the CS. That's just how it is.

Maybe I have never been around when Leaf owners come and have a look. Apparently they dislike other EV's. I like them all, but I didn't buy a Leaf because of the lack of battery temperature management in our hot climate. Most of the people looking at the i3 are normal fossil fuel car owners, but I have also met Tesla and other EV/Hybrid owners having a good look.
 
lorenfb said:
Beleaf said:
It's quite interesting to drive along with a fancy car (or park next to) like a Porsche and notice more pedestrians look with interest at the i3.

Yes, but you really don't know what they're truly thinking.

I'll be explicit in my view:

1. It has ugly lines.
2. Driver is seated too high.
3. The tires are too narrow, i.e. with this & #2 can't imagine good handling.
4. The interior is ugly, e.g. bamboo dashboard - please.
5. The function of the rear doors, i.e. access thru front doors.
6. It has ugly color combos, i.e. '50s two-tone look.
7. The instrument cluster, i.e. like a small tablet, appears to be an afterthought.
8. The placement of the charging port on the side requires backing into charging stalls.
 
re #3, handling seemed quite good with those wonky tires, but they cost a fortune and wear out quickly, so pass. Looked to me like you'd spend double what a regular car uses in gas every year just keeping shoes on that thing.
 
1. It has ugly lines.
2. Driver is seated too high.
3. The tires are too narrow, i.e. with this & #2 can't imagine good handling.
4. The interior is ugly, e.g. bamboo dashboard - please.
5. The function of the rear doors, i.e. access thru front doors.
6. It has ugly color combos, i.e. '50s two-tone look.
7. The instrument cluster, i.e. like a small tablet, appears to be an afterthought.
8. The placement of the charging port on the side requires backing into charging stalls.

1. It has different styling than the generic styling of most cars. "Ugly" is not a fact, just an opinion.
2. Driver height is fine and clearly legal. Dealing with opinion here.
3. Tyres are narrow because the i3 is focussed on efficiency. Opinion does not follow fact. The i3 has very good handling: Fact.
4. "Ugly" is not a fact, an opinion. You can choose a plastic dash.
5. Nothing wrong with the rear doors. They are different, yes.
6. "Ugly" is not a fact, an opinion.
7. The instrument cluster is like a tablet. Different, yes. We are seeing more of the same in newer cars now.
8. True. No big deal though. Place your EVSE inside the entry of your garage and you don't have to back in.

What we seem to deal here is that some people are scared of design and styling that are different to the norm. In a world where more and more cars are looking similar, it's actually good to see someone prepared to step out of the box and design something that looks significantly different.

I have yet to have anyone actually looking at the i3 call it "ugly" but you are welcome to have your opinion, that is what makes you different.
 
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