Official Ford Focus Electric Thread

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DNAinaGoodWay said:
So, might you offer more than the CHadeMo/Tesla adapter in future? Might be a market for CHadeMo/CCS, or CCS/CHadeMo. If either are possible.

We don't make any DC adaptor currently (they are all "hardwired").

It is quite likely that we will make a CHAdeMO station to CCS-Combo1/2 car adaptor, as there are obviously far more CHAdeMO stations than the reverse. Maybe in two or three years.
 
Ford has not been interested in selling the Focus EV except in California (probably to get the CARB credits). I might have tried one as a replacement for the 2011 if I could have ordered one with assurance I would receive it in a reasonable amount of time. The Ford dealer closest to my house seems to be interested in EVs, but when I talked to a salesman he told me it could take 3 to 6 months to get one (and no assurance on even those estimates). That dealer has a working Blink DCQC along with a few L2s so they seem committed. I used their DCQC the other day when I forgot my ID badge and had to make an extra round trip to the office.

Gerry
 
I also know someone that owns one, and their A/C is not as efficient so they drive around without it on in this Arizona heat, and claims he likes it because he is a lizard. I personally like the body style better than the leafs but not the interior. I also don't like that it doesn't have chademo. I definitely like its battery cooling and resultant battery longevity much better.
 
TonyWilliams said:
GRA said:
CCS is pretty mainstream now, and will be even more so in the future (in the U.S.: it's definitely mainstream in Europe now, 1,615 CCS-2 vs. 2,755 CHAdeMO there - see http://insideevs.com/1600-combo-chargers-in-europe-includes-chademo-comparison/ ) as both German (VW group, Daimler, BMW) and U.S. manufacturers (GM with the Bolt, Ford, etc.) introduce cars that use it. While the number of CHAdeMO both here and in Europe is still larger, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of CCS that are both available to the general public 24/7 and working is equal or greater than CHAdeMO, as so many of the CHAdeMOs were installed at dealerships with restricted access, and/or have gone unmaintained.

Certainly, in Europe, they have gone "above and beyond" the call of duty by trying to first outlaw CHAdeMO, the. restrict it, and finally accept it as an official EU standard (with continuous attempts within Germany alone to outlaw, restrict or otherwise harass any completion). As we are all painfully aware, the primary European supporters of CCS are the German government and the German auto manufacturers.

Your assumption that CHAdeMO (some stations that have been in the ground for 4 years) don't work, but that miraculously, CCS stations all will work and won't be at dealerships seems like something a German bureaucrat might say.

I suspect, however, that isn't true.
There were certainly early compatibility issues between some CCS chargers and some CCS-equipped cars, but that seems to have died down owing to firmware improvements. No tech can be reliable if it isn't maintained, but so many of the early CHAdeMO were put in at poor locations (dealers and sites that see infrequent use), as well as being first out of the gate and so suffering from the inevitable first actor issues, that they seem to be suffering a much higher out of service rate. Most of the CCS are going in at locations other than dealers; AFAIA all eVgo are such, and most of the others are too. So, while there undoubtedly are CCS at dealers, they won't make up the majority of the installs the way CHAdeMO did early on.

TonyWilliams said:
GRA said:
... Audi is talking about 150kW as a first stage CCS increase, and looking to well above that down the road.
Ford actually started asking for the 150kW charging first... yes, Ford.

I find it highly likely that the future 150kW Chargers will neither be fully compatible with the current 25-50kW CCS Combo1 chargers in the USA, nor the CCS Combo2 chargers in Europe.
Perhaps, Tony, but then you also predicted that CCS was DoA and you missed that one, so I'll await events rather than relying on either of our predictions - I've certainly gotten a few wrong.

TonyWilliams said:
What I find VERY LIKELY is Tesla leap-frogging that 150kW standard as if a Ford, GM, and German Auto manufacturer automobile were in reverse!

What isn't mentioned much in the over 100kW arena is the CHAdeMO Association... they seem to be very quiet on the issue.
CHAdeMO will have to compete with the higher power stations provided by the other standards; it remains to be seen how backward-compatible they (and the others) will be - certainly that's an important goal for all of them, although the coming wave of wireless L2 (at least) charging may soften that requirement - if cars eventually all switch over to wireless as the default, it frees up QCs to use something more specialized for higher power (at a considerable cost for stranding existing tech, to be sure).
 
GRA said:
redLEAF said:
There was a slim possibility that the original FFE was to be available before the LEAF in the Chicago market a few years back but as history tells us, that simply wasn't to be; these are still quite a rare occurrence out this way. The compromised cargo space, (initial) high price of entry, limited to zero dealer interest ... just had too much going against it and still no regrets from me in the 4 years we've had our LEAF; kind of a shame really as I've owned a few Ford's over the years; not surprised they went with the SAE combo if that ends up being true, just one more example of not being a mainstream EV player.
CCS is pretty mainstream now, and will be even more so in the future (in the U.S.: it's definitely mainstream in Europe now, 1,615 CCS-2 vs. 2,755 CHAdeMO there - see http://insideevs.com/1600-combo-chargers-in-europe-includes-chademo-comparison/ ) as both German (VW group, Daimler, BMW) and U.S. manufacturers (GM with the Bolt, Ford, etc.) introduce cars that use it. While the number of CHAdeMO both here and in Europe is still larger, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of CCS that are both available to the general public 24/7 and working is equal or greater than CHAdeMO, as so many of the CHAdeMOs were installed at dealerships with restricted access, and/or have gone unmaintained. At least with eVgo, they've avoided the former, and seem to be doing a good job of preventing the latter. Whether the BMW 24kW CCS-only units at motels and the like will be similarly maintained remains to be seen. And the manufacturers seem to have recognized that with longer range BEVs appearing they need higher power chargers, as Audi is talking about 150kW as a first stage CCS increase, and looking to well above that down the road.

interesting statement from a guy who states that EVs are not mainstream... but I guess it wouldn't be the first time we had a Beta infrastructure in a VHS World
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
CCS is pretty mainstream now, and will be even more so in the future (in the U.S.: it's definitely mainstream in Europe now, 1,615 CCS-2 vs. 2,755 CHAdeMO there - see http://insideevs.com/1600-combo-chargers-in-europe-includes-chademo-comparison/ ) as both German (VW group, Daimler, BMW) and U.S. manufacturers (GM with the Bolt, Ford, etc.) introduce cars that use it. While the number of CHAdeMO both here and in Europe is still larger, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of CCS that are both available to the general public 24/7 and working is equal or greater than CHAdeMO, as so many of the CHAdeMOs were installed at dealerships with restricted access, and/or have gone unmaintained. At least with eVgo, they've avoided the former, and seem to be doing a good job of preventing the latter. Whether the BMW 24kW CCS-only units at motels and the like will be similarly maintained remains to be seen. And the manufacturers seem to have recognized that with longer range BEVs appearing they need higher power chargers, as Audi is talking about 150kW as a first stage CCS increase, and looking to well above that down the road.
interesting statement from a guy who states that EVs are not mainstream... but I guess it wouldn't be the first time we had a Beta infrastructure in a VHS World
Obviously I was referring to CCS being mainstream in the context of QCs, not whether PEVs were mainstream - with sales remaining below 1%, PEVs are obviously not. BTW, BETA came first but lost out to the later appearing VHS - by drawing the parallel, are you suggesting that CCS is bound to overtake and ultimately eliminate CHAdeMO? ;)
 
GRA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
GRA said:
CCS is pretty mainstream now, and will be even more so in the future (in the U.S.: it's definitely mainstream in Europe now, 1,615 CCS-2 vs. 2,755 CHAdeMO there - see http://insideevs.com/1600-combo-chargers-in-europe-includes-chademo-comparison/ ) as both German (VW group, Daimler, BMW) and U.S. manufacturers (GM with the Bolt, Ford, etc.) introduce cars that use it. While the number of CHAdeMO both here and in Europe is still larger, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of CCS that are both available to the general public 24/7 and working is equal or greater than CHAdeMO, as so many of the CHAdeMOs were installed at dealerships with restricted access, and/or have gone unmaintained. At least with eVgo, they've avoided the former, and seem to be doing a good job of preventing the latter. Whether the BMW 24kW CCS-only units at motels and the like will be similarly maintained remains to be seen. And the manufacturers seem to have recognized that with longer range BEVs appearing they need higher power chargers, as Audi is talking about 150kW as a first stage CCS increase, and looking to well above that down the road.
interesting statement from a guy who states that EVs are not mainstream... but I guess it wouldn't be the first time we had a Beta infrastructure in a VHS World
Obviously I was referring to CCS being mainstream in the context of QCs, not whether PEVs were mainstream - with sales remaining below 1%, PEVs are obviously not. BTW, BETA came first but lost out to the later appearing VHS - by drawing the parallel, are you suggesting that CCS is bound to overtake and ultimately eliminate CHAdeMO? ;)

no I don't but then again; some manufacturers "could" be forced to comply...
 
On the off chance that there are people that care, via IEVS:
Detailed Range Ratings For Updated 2017 Ford Focus EV: 126 Miles In The City!
http://insideevs.com/detailed-range-ratings-for-updated-2017-ford-focus-ev-126-miles-in-the-city/

101 HWY, 115 combined.
 
GRA said:
On the off chance that there are people that care, via IEVS:
Detailed Range Ratings For Updated 2017 Ford Focus EV: 126 Miles In The City!
http://insideevs.com/detailed-range-ratings-for-updated-2017-ford-focus-ev-126-miles-in-the-city/

101 HWY, 115 combined.

If they proportionally increased cargo space I could bite.
 
Valdemar said:
GRA said:
On the off chance that there are people that care, via IEVS:
Detailed Range Ratings For Updated 2017 Ford Focus EV: 126 Miles In The City!
http://insideevs.com/detailed-range-ratings-for-updated-2017-ford-focus-ev-126-miles-in-the-city/

101 HWY, 115 combined.

If they proportionally increased cargo space I could bite.
Sure, if Ford thought it worthwhile to spend some money developing a true multi-powertrain-option platform ala' MQB, but until then it's still the same battery-pack limited space.
 
Could be interested in this new one. But did a search for inventory within 100 miles and found nothing. Can't go sit in one or test drive it. Probably no trained EV techs around if they won't stock them. So, can't seriously consider one.
 
Valdemar said:
If they proportionally increased cargo space I could bite.
Ford is only doing the minimal effort here with their PHEVs. Cargo space is severely compromised in their EV / PHEV conversions. If they were serious, they'd build an EV from the ground up, or at least make some half-way effort to package the battery without giving up a huge amount of storage space.

In addition, with their CEO making comments like this, I can't in good conscious buy a Ford. They don't care - they know that they make most of their money on trucks and SUVs, environment be damned.

Ford CEO Told Trump U.S. Fuel-Economy Rules Risk 1 Million Jobs
 
Not more than 2 cents to add, but I jumped into the EV market last month with a 2017 Focus Electric. Had test driven a Leaf for a whole day and liked it but... cargo space isn't THAT big an issue for me, and the dreaded battery life issues of the Leaf were a no-go as I like to keep my cars a while (and do over 20K/yr in miles so leasing is rarely economical).

Couple other items to note:

FFE's suspension feels sturdier than the Leaf, one particular hilly curve near my house demonstrated this (the Leaf gave me some pause, but the Ford handles it like a champ)

Standard HID headlights on the FFE. Never had those before, it's a nice touch.

I was impressed to see the Focus Electric not only has a liquid cooling system for the battery, but a chiller module plumbed to the A/C compressor to keep it cool in extreme heat (see http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4027#p27462 )

Otherwise it's not that different from the Leaf, similar range, same Level 2 charging capability and the 2017 FFE has CCS/SAE DC fast charging. I do think the Leaf SV/SL's heat pump would be a benefit though, as the Focus just has a PTC resistive heater. I'll rely on preconditioning at home and hopefully my workplace gets some charging soon... the bug is in the ear of some facilities folks who can make that happen.
 
spirilis said:
Not more than 2 cents to add, but I jumped into the EV market last month with a 2017 Focus Electric. Had test driven a Leaf for a whole day and liked it but... cargo space isn't THAT big an issue for me, and the dreaded battery life issues of the Leaf were a no-go...
Sorry, but up to the point AVTA testing program was terminated, the FFE arguably tested the worst of all BEVs, not only suffering rapid battery degradation in the extreme Phoenix climate, but also very high energy consumption/poor efficiency.

The Focus Es used 360.3 AC Wh/mile (cumulative average electricity consumption) as compared to 303.2 AC Wh/mile for the LEAFs tested, evidently due to the additional kWh consumption required by the Focus's ATM.

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/ar2013FordFocusBEV.pdf
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/ar2013NissanLeafBEV.pdf

edatoakrun said:
(p.59) News from AVTA testing of pack capacity loss for 2013 FFEs conducted in the extreme Phoenix climate.

ICD 2 results (after ~14 months and ~12,000 miles, from baseline) for two of the FFEs have been posted, and show ~10% capacity loss so far:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus1700.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/batteryFocus2578.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, IMO these very preliminary results suggest the FFE battery pack's ATM may produce limited benefits (when considering differences in time, miles, and seasonality) over the results now showing up for the 2013 LEAFs, as discussed:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18555&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should know a lot more when the results for more of the packs, over the longer terms, are posted.

All reports for all tested BEVs available at the main page here:

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Dont know the specs on the 2017 but went thru training for the earlier model while I worked there and Ford has 3 AC systems including two that can do double duty to cool passengers or battery and two heating systems, one for each passengers and battery with the battery component that can assist with cabin heat.

I thought that was a bit of overkill but it now appears it was because they knew their chemistry was crap.
 
edatoakrun said:
Sorry, but up to the point AVTA testing program was terminated, the FFE arguably tested the worst of all BEVs, not only suffering rapid battery degradation in the extreme Phoenix climate
The Fusion/C-Max Energi model seem to be losing 15% capacity after a couple years in coastal California weather, so yeah, if the Focus is similar, the rate of capacity loss is not that much different than the LEAF despite having TMS.

That said, haven't heard much about Focus EV capacity loss. Maybe there's just not enough of them out on the road.
 
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