Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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Interesting Leaf spy stats. Seems opposite from all of the posts about hotter climates. 2012 SL in cold Massachusetts.

on 10/17 I had 48.373 Ahr and 73% SOH at 35300 mi
Went to 9 bars at about 47.53 Ahr
on 11/26 I had 47.160 Ahr and 71% SOH at 36722 mi
on 1/4 I have 46.471 Ahr and 70% SOH at 38113 mi

During the colder months, I am losing about 1 Ahr / month so far. I am not working the battery. Just charging to 100% to ensure I had enough range to commute, 30 mi round trip at 40mph, while also using heat at 68 degrees. Sometimes the Ahr rises. But, after a few days of rise, it falls again.

I have warranty until 11/15/17. But, it seems to be falling faster than what I've read to expect (which is good).
 
Interesting Leaf Spy stats. Seems opposite from all of the posts about hotter climates. 2012 SL in cold Massachusetts.

on 10/17 I had 48.373 Ahr and 73% SOH at 35300 mi
Went to 9 bars at about 47.53 Ahr
on 11/26 I had 47.160 Ahr and 71% SOH at 36722 mi
on 1/4 I have 46.471 Ahr and 70% SOH at 38113 mi

During the colder months, I am losing about 1 Ahr / month so far. I am not working the battery. Just charging to 100% to ensure I had enough range to commute, 30 mi round trip at 40mph, while also using heat at 68 degrees. Sometimes the Ahr rises. But, after a few days of rise, it falls again.

I have warranty until 11/15/17. But, it seems to be falling faster than what I've read to expect (which is good).

My experience has been fairly similar here in the bay state. I don't any instruments to record it, but I lost the first bar at about 45,000 mi, the 2nd at 47,750 mi. It still shows 10 bars at about 55,000 mi, but seems a lot closer to 9.
 
Amped said:
Interesting Leaf spy stats. Seems opposite from all of the posts about hotter climates. 2012 SL in cold Massachusetts.

on 10/17 I had 48.373 Ahr and 73% SOH at 35300 mi
Went to 9 bars at about 47.53 Ahr
on 11/26 I had 47.160 Ahr and 71% SOH at 36722 mi
on 1/4 I have 46.471 Ahr and 70% SOH at 38113 mi

During the colder months, I am losing about 1 Ahr / month so far. I am not working the battery. Just charging to 100% to ensure I had enough range to commute, 30 mi round trip at 40mph, while also using heat at 68 degrees. Sometimes the Ahr rises. But, after a few days of rise, it falls again.

I have warranty until 11/15/17. But, it seems to be falling faster than what I've read to expect (which is good).

I dont get it. range is an issue but you run heat at 68º? I would sweating at that temp!

I figured you would be more acclimated to the cold with the weather you get but it seems like everyone is running around with settings in the upper 60's and low 70's. Unreal...
 
There is nothing "unreal" about needing adequate heat. Try measuring the actual temp in your car's cabin, in cold weather, at whatever you use for a heat setting. When I set my heat to 85, with the fan on Low, the cabin temp is about 45-50F in frigid weather. When you get older you may start to understand all this stuff that perplexes you now.
 
LeftieBiker said:
There is nothing "unreal" about needing adequate heat. Try measuring the actual temp in your car's cabin, in cold weather, at whatever you use for a heat setting. When I set my heat to 85, with the fan on Low, the cabin temp is about 45-50F in frigid weather.
What is "unreal" is the design of the climate-control system in the MY2011 and 2012 Nissan LEAF. If you want to see out the windshield which is fogging up, you have only ONE choice: Bring in outside air to do it. When it is 12F outside like it is today, that means making the cabin (which had previously been warm) very cold. It's incredibly frustrating (not to mention distracting from the task of driving).
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Amped said:
Interesting Leaf spy stats. Seems opposite from all of the posts about hotter climates. 2012 SL in cold Massachusetts.

on 10/17 I had 48.373 Ahr and 73% SOH at 35300 mi
Went to 9 bars at about 47.53 Ahr
on 11/26 I had 47.160 Ahr and 71% SOH at 36722 mi
on 1/4 I have 46.471 Ahr and 70% SOH at 38113 mi

During the colder months, I am losing about 1 Ahr / month so far. I am not working the battery. Just charging to 100% to ensure I had enough range to commute, 30 mi round trip at 40mph, while also using heat at 68 degrees. Sometimes the Ahr rises. But, after a few days of rise, it falls again.

I have warranty until 11/15/17. But, it seems to be falling faster than what I've read to expect (which is good).

I dont get it. range is an issue but you run heat at 68º? I would sweating at that temp!

I figured you would be more acclimated to the cold with the weather you get but it seems like everyone is running around with settings in the upper 60's and low 70's. Unreal...

First winter with the Leaf. 100% charge is insurance. I still have 1-3 bars left when I get home. Without heat, I'd have about 5-6 bars. The heated seat and steering wheel keep me warm except for my feet. Also, the windows get foggy a lot. So, I'd prefer the heat. :D
 
Amped said:
First winter with the Leaf. 100% charge is insurance. I still have 1-3 bars left when I get home. Without heat, I'd have about 5-6 bars. The heated seat and steering wheel keep me warm except for my feet. Also, the windows get foggy a lot. So, I'd prefer the heat. :D

Keep blower running at windscreen + feet mode (manually keep it in that mode). And blower at 3 bars. Press fresh air so it definitely is in fresh air mode. Turn heat down. If it is not fogging up may try blower at 2 bars.
If you arrive home with 1-3 bars then it's better to charge to 100% (or 90% if you can manage the timer magic).
If battery below 4 bars 100% charge hardly degrades pack.
 
I have a 2012 SL with 46,000 miles. As of this morning, AHr are at 44.883, SOH is 68% and Hx is 47.51. I was losing about .5 - 1 AHr per month back during the Summer (I am in GA). In fact, I was on target to drop to 8 bars before Christmas. But as the weather has cooled, my capacity loss has ceased. I am pretty much where I was back in early October.
 
Why 15 degrees? The car is garaged and while the battery temps are below 59 degrees Fahrenheit (about 15 degrees Celsius) today, it has been pretty mild here in South up until this weekend.
 
I suspect Nissan's engineers knew that 1) degradation is really slow at cold temperatures and
2) it is almost impossible to get good data if chemistry is cold (we know that you get less juice
if battery is below optimal temperature).

So if there is 5 battery temp bars it should update once in a while.
 
Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You
 
snguyen4 said:
Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?


Thank You

Assuming the # of QCs helped balance the pack. Providing better stats than only two months ago. I'd give it another two months. I generally saw changes every 3-5 months rather than month to month. I don't recall the temp but I often hit high temp warning and sometimes power warning when qc 3-6 times in a day. I did several trips from the Sacramento to Bay Area and had to quick charge up to 6 times in a day.
 
snguyen4 said:
Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You


I have a 12 SL. My stats and miles are very close to yours. I think I'm at 45.92 AHR and 38K miles. I also have seen the AHR go up and then come back down. It will go up for a few days and then go down. But, the loss over the month is still about .5 to 1 AHR a month. I've read somewhere on this forum that cell re-balancing occurs and the LEAF will now show the real AHR when it happens. If I misunderstood the cell re-balancing, hopefully, someone will give a better explanation.
 
snguyen4 said:
Can anyone explain this to me.

Batteries have their peculiarities, however based on the evidence on this forum it seems that quick charging has a temporary effect of increasing reported battery capacity. Users have found that when they stopped QC this 'temporary' capacity went away fairly quickly.

My experience (Dallas TX) has been that summer heat and summer heat alone causes the bulk of battery degradation. I lost a lot of Amp-hours on a new lizard battery over 1 summer with gentle charging overnight to 80%.

35 QC and 52 L2 in 800 miles is quite an effort. What battery temps are you seeing on leafspy? Are you QC'ing multiple times in a row? When I was 'working' my original battery I found the best way to elevate the battery temp was to find an open road, floor it to desired maximum speed, then regen down to ~20MPH. Rinse and repeat. This transfers energy from chemical (battery) to kinetic (momentum) and back, and each time the energy is transferred there are losses in the battery (losses = heat). This is far more effective than QC and open road driving and also reduces time & $$ at the QC.

Battery degradation is far harsher in hotter climates, however you still have one more summer.
 
Aussie said:
snguyen4 said:
Can anyone explain this to me.

Thank you for your reply Aussie....

I've been doing a lot of FREE QC. I've been driving the car on the freeway and trying to get it up to 75 MPH and then backing it off to 55-60 MPH and then slamming the pedal again to get it up to 75 MPH and repeat as much as I can. I just started this process in the last few days since the numbers increase. I did manage to get the temp up to 130F and got the turtle when the SOC is at 80% once and the other 2 times I got it to about 110F. What is a good temperature to get it up to with out voiding the warranty? I'm trying very hard but I don't know if I'm doing everything the right way or not. I have six 50 pound sand bags in the car and I'm trying to QC as much as I can. I've been reading a lot of the post on the forum but if anyone with personal experience have any tips that I may have missed please let me know.

Thank You
 
snguyen4 said:
What is a good temperature to get it up to with out voiding the warranty?

How long is a piece of string? I think the warranty is designed that people can't put it in a paint booth for a couple of days and cook the battery until it melts. You could easily explain having elevated temperatures due to hard driving and multiple quick charges. I'm not aware of anyone on this forum being pinged for driving too hard when it came to battery warranty replacement.

It sounds like you're cooking that battery hard. Based on the evidence on this forum, you will be causing degradation. I suspect that when you back off on the QC the capacity will drop like a stone (but nothing is guaranteed). At least you still have plenty of time.
 
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