hyperionmark said:
If you see 12 capacity bars and, say, 58AH or less, then I'd say it's been reset. There is a chart that shows at what AH each bars "drops." Does anyone have a link?
Battery capacity question (with picture)
- Thread starter hyperionmark
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If you see 12 capacity bars and, say, 58AH or less, then I'd say it's been reset. There is a chart that shows at what AH each bars "drops." Does anyone have a link?
If brand new is 65 Ahr and the bar drops at 15% loss, that should work out to about 55 Ahr.
Every 6.25% bar after that should equal about 4 Ahr further loss
There is a wiggle room here because the bars do not match Ahr precisely.
Every 6.25% bar after that should equal about 4 Ahr further loss
There is a wiggle room here because the bars do not match Ahr precisely.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I'm not sure that's a good metric. In the past day, my used 5/2013 built '13 that still has all 12 CBs and shows these stats:LeftieBiker said:
AHr: 57.02
SOH: 87%
Hx: 85.52%
odo: 41,428 miles
The stats fluctuate, of course. For example, the same car was showing this on 1/27/17:
AHr: 57.94
SOH: 88%
Hx: 87.52%
odo: 41,226 miles
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=430825#p430825 has my stats when I bought it used in July 2015. I'm quite sure mine was never reset. The stats weren't out of line for a SF Bay Area for 5/2013 built '13 of that age and mileage.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984 is the table.
LeftieBiker said:
Read the post again! To calculate the present condition of the battery, i.e. the Ahrs, when fully charged,
one needs to determine the present Ahrs at the time of measurement divided by the present SOC at the
time of measurement. This is then compared to what was the condition of the battery when new at 100%
SOC, i.e. the Ahrs. One then has a relative measure of battery capacity loss, i.e. it obviates the issue of a BMS
reset.
How is it that Sagebrush who just recently acquired his Leaf has a better understanding of how to evaluate
a used Leaf's battery?
Don't hold me up as any standard -- I've been lurking for a long time before I bought my car.lorenfb said:
And now, perhaps to put my foot in my mouth ...
Do the different LeafSpy pages shows different Ahr numbers ?
I know the first page AHr result has to be normalized to a full SoC;
But how about the page I show above -- the 'battery cells' report. Is that AHr reading already normalized ?
First, I stated that I wasn't sure about the 58AH, and asked for a link to the chart. Second, SOC by itself isn't the most important stat. I now understand that it's used to calculate relative capacity, but I think a gross discrepancy in AH vs bars is the easiest way for a newbie to determine whether or not the BMS was reset, while test driving a used Leaf. So the best number we can give the OP is an AH range that is valid for 12 capacity bars, and below which a reset is indicated. Would that lowest number be 57.0? 56.5?
I want to encourage all people who are considering buying a used LEAF to buy the full version of LeafSpy
[*]This program is saving your bacon. $15 is the best bargain you will ever be granted
[*]IIRC, only the pro version shows the array of cell voltages. You do not want to buy a car with a weak cell(s)
[*]This program is saving your bacon. $15 is the best bargain you will ever be granted
[*]IIRC, only the pro version shows the array of cell voltages. You do not want to buy a car with a weak cell(s)
LeftieBiker said:
Presently my Leaf with 44K miles has 51.3 Ahrs when fully charged (SOC=100%) and 12 bars. The first bar
now drops at about 48 - 49 Ahrs while driving. Since new (12/1/13) no special charging approach has been
used, i.e. 100% during 5 week days and 2 -3 QCs per week. The Ahrs were not evaluated when delivered until
about 4K miles (61 Ahrs). I assume, as SageBrush mentions, that when it was delivered to the dealer from
the factory it had about 65 Ahrs (65A X 370V = 24kWhrs).
While driving, the Ahrs are never lower than 18 - 19 Ahrs the result of trip planning and the use of QCs or L2
access via my customers using the Leaf EVSE via multiple EVSE plug adapters. Based on my typical driving
(~ 2 miles per Ahr), I continually calculate my range and basically never use the GOM. So now with about
51 Ahrs (SOC = 100%) minus 19 (lowest allowed Ahrs), my present expected/allowed range is about 60 miles,
requiring prior knowledge of QC locations. LeadDD is continually connected to monitor the Ahrs during
driving. A BT dongle is carried in the glovebox to utilize LeafSpy Pro for detailed diagnostics, e.g. read & reset
fault codes if a problem occurs, e.g. a QC fails to initiate charging.
SageBrush said:
1. "Do the different LeafSpy pages shows different Ahr numbers ?"
They can be, if they have been evaluated at various SOCs or for some metric being calculated over time.
2."I know the first page AHr result has to be normalized to a full SoC;
But how about the page I show above -- the 'battery cells' report. Is that AHr reading already normalized ?"
When evaluating the present Ahrs of the battery, one always needs to know what the SOC is at that point
in time, e.g. if the present SOC is 100%, then the Ahrs is at its max value.
With regard to your image of LeafSpy data (64.55 Ahrs & 97%), mostly likely the Ahrs shown are based on
SOC = 100%, i.e. it been "normalized" to use that term. I will verify this with my Leaf & LeafSpy.
Presently my LeafDD indicates about 32 Ahrs (not fully charged). LeafSpy indicates 53 Ahrs and SOC = 60%
with the same image as displayed upthread (53 Ahrs X 60% = 32 Ahrs). So the percentage shown is the
present SOC of your battery, i.e. it then had about 63 Ahrs (64.55 X 97%) of available capacity left from
the last charge.
With regard to your Ahrs, you have basically a new 24kWh Leaf!
We were talking about capacity bars dropping, not charge bars. Are you saying that the first page AH reading can't be used to judge capacity? Can anyone confirm that?
Yep. My LEAF broker had to pick his jaw off the floor once he realized what he was selling me for $8300. The car also made his other choices look poor, particularly the off-leases that had lived in Atlanta instead of the N. California area. It is this car that has lead me to wonder how much of the variation in battery aging is related to usage differences and how much is just luck of the draw. I'm more than willing to accept that the first owners were easy on the battery and the climate was LEAF friendly, but almost no aging at all after 3 years certainly suggests a lucky sort from the factory. Maybe I'll sell the car back to Nissan in a few years so that they can learn to replicate it more consistently ;-)lorenfb said:
[Think the voice of the guy promoting Arby's]: WE HAVE THE SECRET SAUCE!
I was playing around with LeafSpy today and forgot to check the battery health page to see if the software was normalizing the AHr reading to a 100% SoC. I'll remember next time and report back. Btw, there seems to be three versions of LeafSpy up for sale these days, spanning $0 to $15. It might be a chore to get everybody talking about the same page.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Actually there are at least 6...SageBrush said:
Three at https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Turbo3.
This has all been known for a long time. Lite you use to test your setup. The paid versions you get if you want more features.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14284, which also includes a pointer to a version that appears to be for Amazon's Kindle tablets. There appears to be a Lite and Pro version for Kindles.
I think the auto parsing and replacement of text to Amazon links munged Turbo3's posts near the end of his 1st post.
iOS version at https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/leafspy-pro/id967376861?mt=8.
OK, more on Ahr readings from LeafSpy..
I am using the 'Pro' version, bought early 2017
Below is a screen capture of what I call the 'battery health' page, although it is not so named in my version of LEAFSpy.
It was caught while the battery SOC was below 60% and reports 63.88 Ahr, so I infer that the software has normalized my reading to ~ 100 Soc. I have no idea how that was done, but it does mean that on this page the user does not have to take into the account the SoC -- the software did it already.
I am using the 'Pro' version, bought early 2017
Below is a screen capture of what I call the 'battery health' page, although it is not so named in my version of LEAFSpy.
It was caught while the battery SOC was below 60% and reports 63.88 Ahr, so I infer that the software has normalized my reading to ~ 100 Soc. I have no idea how that was done, but it does mean that on this page the user does not have to take into the account the SoC -- the software did it already.
That was my understanding of how it worked, until I got trolled...anyway, it looks like the pack is in excellent shape. Still, I'd take another reading in a week or two.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
About $6500.0000jimmy said:
I understand your skepticism -- it really does look too good to be true. Fortunately for me, repeat readings over the ~ month I have owned the car have been consistent and the range per charge matches up. The one time so far I charged up to 100% SoC the GOM reported 110 miles of range. I know that is wishful thinking but it is consistent with around 20+ kWh capacity.LeftieBiker said:
LeftieBiker said:
Of course, i.e. I've yet to have a loss of a bar. I just provided additional insight about my Leaf as it's driven.
The image (page) that SageBrush posted does indicate the actual remaining Ahrs (@ SOC= 100% - normalized
or whatever), i.e. a virtual new Leaf. Congrats to SageBrush.
Again, my confirmation of the Ahrs @ SOC=100% using LeafSpy on my Leaf:
"With regard to your image of LeafSpy data (64.55 Ahrs & 97%), mostly likely the Ahrs shown are based on
SOC = 100%, i.e. it been "normalized" to use that term. I will verify this with my Leaf & LeafSpy.
Presently my LeafDD indicates about 32 Ahrs (not fully charged). LeafSpy indicates 53 Ahrs and SOC = 60%
with the same image as displayed upthread (53 Ahrs X 60% = 32 Ahrs). So the percentage shown is the
present SOC of your battery, i.e. it then had about 63 Ahrs (64.55 X 97%) of available capacity left from
the last charge."
SageBrush said:
Good for you, then!
Without having LeafDD or LeafSpy, my experience with the Leaf would have been such that I would not
have bought-out my 3 year lease (36K) at 41K. Who likes driving a vehicle with a "shrinking gas tank"
and having to rely on a basically useless range calculator (GOM)?
have bought-out my 3 year lease (36K) at 41K. Who likes driving a vehicle with a "shrinking gas tank"
and having to rely on a basically useless range calculator (GOM)?
