Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

I was about 47Ahr in February 2015 and it took 7 or 8 months and 9000 miles for the bar to finally drop at 41.5 in SoCal, I didn't abuse the battery but quick charged almost daily just to make my commute. Just for your reference, sounds like you might be cutting it close. The stats were fluctuating like you say but at some point the AHR would drop significantly and would never rise to previous levels. The computer logs excessive temperatures, QC and aggressive driving, this is the data they pull during annual battery checks. I'd stay within the limits specified in the warranty booklet just to play it safe.

Valdemar said:

I was about 47Ahr in February 2015 and it took 7 or 8 months and 9000 miles

Click to expand...

I guess I'm just going to have to start putting more miles on it. I was able to get the battery temperature up to 130F today with 3 QC and about 45 miles of driving going 60mph to75mph and backing it off to 60mph and then hit 75mph again over and over again and the temperature is only 58F outside. Should I try to get it to 130F everyday or keep it at a lower temperature like 100F. I only get about 35 miles driving it like this. I read some where that the temperature can not be over 120F for over 24hr. Is that right?

snguyen4 said:

Valdemar said:

I was about 47Ahr in February 2015 and it took 7 or 8 months and 9000 miles

Click to expand...

I guess I'm just going to have to start putting more miles on it. I was able to get the battery temperature up to 130F today with 3 QC and about 45 miles of driving going 60mph to75mph and backing it off to 60mph and then hit 75mph again over and over again and the temperature is only 58F outside. Should I try to get it to 130F everyday or keep it at a lower temperature like 100F. I only get about 35 miles driving it like this. I read some where that the temperature can not be over 120F for over 24hr. Is that right?

Click to expand...

Yes, there was a limitation to outside temperature. User can not actually see battery temperature, remember
130F is 11 or 12 temperature bars? Isn't DC charging slow if battery in red zone?

snguyen4 said:

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

Click to expand...

well for one; your numbers are not a lot higher. they are essentially the same. there will always be some bouncing around of the numbers. that is completely normal.

as far as hastening your pack's demise that few more ahr you need for a replacement, I would suggest just driving it more since you have a ton of mileage, fast charge it to heat it up. But then again, you have all Summer. I don't see it possible that you will miss the warranty

DaveinOlyWA said:

snguyen4 said:

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

Click to expand...

well for one; your numbers are not a lot higher. they are essentially the same. there will always be some bouncing around of the numbers. that is completely normal.

as far as hastening your pack's demise that few more ahr you need for a replacement, I would suggest just driving it more since you have a ton of mileage, fast charge it to heat it up. But then again, you have all Summer. I don't see it possible that you will miss the warranty

Click to expand...

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 132F and my numbers are increasing

2/7/17
AHr=46.94
SOH=71%
Hx=50.86
35,331 Miles
186 QCs & 1162 L1/L2

snguyen4 said:

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 132F and my numbers are increasing

Click to expand...

130F is 11 or 12 temperature bars? Isn't DC charging slow if battery in red zone?
132F is 12 temperature bars?
How do do you keep it that high if you can't rapid charge?

Numbers are increasing because measurements are taken while chemistry is hot. Hot li-ion battery "contains more juice"
than manufacturer specifies. As soon as it cools down and new calculations are made with colder pack, numbers will go down.
Battery capacity and Hx update at temperatures above 15C 59F. Numbers don't change immediately. It will require many
normal longer trips with battery not hot with charges in between.

arnis said:

snguyen4 said:

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 132F and my numbers are increasing

Click to expand...

130F is 11 or 12 temperature bars? Isn't DC charging slow if battery in red zone?
132F is 12 temperature bars?
How do do you keep it that high if you can't rapid charge?

Numbers are increasing because measurements are taken while chemistry is hot. Hot li-ion battery "contains more juice"
than manufacturer specifies. As soon as it cools down and new calculations are made with colder pack, numbers will go down.
Battery capacity and Hx update at temperatures above 15C 59F. Numbers don't change immediately. It will require many
normal longer trips with battery not hot with charges in between.

Click to expand...

Thanks you for your reply Arnis...

Today I drove it about 80 miles with 3 QC. On the 2nd QC is was already at 120F and on the 3rd QC it reached 133.3F and only about 6,425 Watts coming to the battery near the end. At the end of the 3rd 30min QC it went form LBW to about 122 GIDs and 60% SOC.

Should I stop doing the QC for a day or two and go with L2 so it can go down or just keep pushing it?

Thank You

snguyen4 said:

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

Click to expand...

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 133.3F and my numbers are increasing

2/7/17
AHr=46.94
SOH=71%
Hx=50.86
35,331 Miles
186 QCs & 1162 L1/L2

snguyen4 said:

snguyen4 said:

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

Click to expand...

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 133.3F and my numbers are increasing

2/7/17
AHr=46.94
SOH=71%
Hx=50.86
35,331 Miles
186 QCs & 1162 L1/L2

Click to expand...

QC will temporarily improve the battery statistics. What you are attempting should work, long-term, but is most effective when it is hot outside. Leaving the battery at 100%, during the heat of the summer, should push it over the edge.

No need to stop. Actually, eventually numbers will stop going up as numbers approach capacity estimate with hot battery.
And then, when you stop going hot, in addition to capacity numbers going back where they were before you started it,
there will also be the degradation drop. Numbers will not drop within few days. They will but not even half of what they should.
Leaf capacity calculation is smoothed out. There have been instances when old pack capacity has been reset (set to 100%) and
it takes weeks to get down multiple bars. I've usually observed fluctuations up to 1% per day.

Still, I'm very interested in temperature bar data.
What is the outside temperature and when do you get those last bars. So when you see another temperature bar on instrument cluster,
what are temperature sensor readings (the hottest sensor)?
AFAIK DC charging is limited in chunks with some specific battery temperature readings. Like at normal temperature 50kW rate is possible.
At some point only 25kW is possible. Then 12,5kW and maybe 6,25kW (you reported something near that).
Also acceleration should be limited as well (double rings will disappear). Have you observed this behavior?

Temperature bars actually are rounded to Celsius, not Fahrenheit. For example at low end 3rd bar appears at 5C, 4th at 15C, 5th at 25C.
Plus there is slight tendency to lag (1-3C) behind if outside temperature is heavily different than battery.

snguyen4 said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

snguyen4 said:

Can anyone explain this to me. My number are a lot higher than what I started with when I started using LeafSpyPro. I have a 2012 and the warranty is good until 11/23/17. I've been trying very hard but it looks like I'm making it better and not worst. Also what temp should I try to bring the battery up to?

12/12/16
AHr=46.29
SOH=70%
Hx=49.81%
33,639 Miles
119 QCs & 983 L1/L2

1/12/17
AHr=45.67
SOH=69%
Hx=48.79%
34,187 Miles
137 QCs & 1104 L1/L2

2/1/17
AHr=46.70
SOH=71%
Hx=50.49%
34,962 Miles
172 QCs & 1156 L1/L2

Thank You

Click to expand...

well for one; your numbers are not a lot higher. they are essentially the same. there will always be some bouncing around of the numbers. that is completely normal.

as far as hastening your pack's demise that few more ahr you need for a replacement, I would suggest just driving it more since you have a ton of mileage, fast charge it to heat it up. But then again, you have all Summer. I don't see it possible that you will miss the warranty

Click to expand...

Should I stop QC and pushing the battery? Today I got the temp to 132F and my numbers are increasing

2/7/17
AHr=46.94
SOH=71%
Hx=50.86
35,331 Miles
186 QCs & 1162 L1/L2

Click to expand...

132º! oh no you dont want to stop. at that rate, you will be dropping bars faster faster than bets on the Super Bowl...

arnis said:

Still, I'm very interested in temperature bar data.
What is the outside temperature and when do you get those last bars. So when you see another temperature bar on instrument cluster,
what are temperature sensor readings (the hottest sensor)?
AFAIK DC charging is limited in chunks with some specific battery temperature readings. Like at normal temperature 50kW rate is possible.
At some point only 25kW is possible. Then 12,5kW and maybe 6,25kW (you reported something near that).
Also acceleration should be limited as well (double rings will disappear). Have you observed this behavior?

Click to expand...

The outside temperature was 58F when I started and 65F when I stopped at around 2 PM PST.
The highest temperature reading from LeafSpyPro was 133.3 but the temperature bar only reached the first red bar and it never reached the last red bar. After my 3rd QC the acceleration was limited when the battery temperature is in the 130F. I was only able to accelerate to the 3rd ring and as the battery enter the 120F I was able to accelerate to all but the last 3 rings.

Thanks. So the first red bar appears around 55C (or 131F).

Interesting fact, Tesla heats battery to 50C to launch it in Ludicrous mode :lol:
But actually 55C is still the limit, even for Tesla.

Somewhere on this forum someone said that the number of bars corresponding to temperatures is a function of SOH.

Can someone who understands this, comment on my battery?
All good or is this 91% SOH and 81% hx (have no idea whats that) are things to worry about?

This was measured with -10celcius (14 Fahrenheit) if there's a difference

Anyone still using leafspy and 2011-2012 Leaf?

Kristis said:

Can someone who understands this, comment on my battery?
All good or is this 91% SOH and 81% hx (have no idea whats that) are things to worry about?

Click to expand...

As far as I know, your battery looks fairly good.

Hx is low, but should go up with warmer temperatures. I've never seen battery below 0C, so can't comment too much.

60AHr is good. SOH 91% matches.

Battery balance looks good at 12mV (hard to read, I think I got the number correctly....)

Kristis said:

Anyone still using leafspy and 2011-2012 Leaf?

Click to expand...

Not me, but I'm sure there are plenty, besides Turbo3 himself. IIRC, he has an '11.

Why do you ask?

WetEV said:

As far as I know, your battery looks fairly good.

Hx is low, but should go up with warmer temperatures. I've never seen battery below 0C, so can't comment too much.

60AHr is good. SOH 91% matches.

Battery balance looks good at 12mV (hard to read, I think I got the number correctly....)

Click to expand...

Thanks But isnt 20% of hx and 10% of soh a bit too excessive for 10 000miles?