2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

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dhanson865 said:
swaltner said:
I lost the first capacity bar on my Leaf yesterday morning. Details as follows:

2013 Leaf SV
Manufactured: Jul 2013
Delivered: July 2013 (factory order, so was on the dealers lot for less than 24 hours)
Max gid reading ever recorded: 267
12->11 bars on: 2013-09-06 - 36,147 miles, 240 gids
Location: Wichita, KS
Charging routine: Mostly 80% charge except for 100% charges right before departure (regularly during winter and infrequent at other times)
Click to expand...

I assume you mean you lost that bar on Sept-6 2016 not 2013?

I added it to the WIKI but didn't have a VIN for it.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sep-6-2016 was the when it lost the first capacity bar.

My VIN ends in 413595.
 
elec7ric said:
I got my new 2013 SL (manufactured 5/2013 ) on 9/30/2013. Lost my first bar 5/2015, second bar 9/2015, third bar 5/2016 and forth bar 8/23/2016 (31,400 miles). First 21 months mostly charged L1/L2 to 80% (home and work). My drive was 55 miles round trip with about 75% highway. As capacity started to go away, I had to charge more often to 100%, however, I tried my best to keep it fully charged as little as possible (extreme Phoenix temperatures).

I wanted to delay replacement even if I was getting at work in the morning with about 12 miles left (from full charge). Just before 3 years, on 9/26 (not charged for third battery check), I was told that the delay in getting a new battery can be 3 months. With that in mind, I asked for the battery to be ordered.

In a month, the capacity loss increased a very few miles (somehow compensated by no AC need in the morning). That was enough to make me accept the replacement, when I was told Friday, 10/28, that my new battery arrived (less than 5 weeks). I dropped my car that afternoon. I got a 9/14 S Leaf as a loaner - similar driving to mine. Saturday afternoon I had back my leaf, with the new battery (AutoNation Nissan Tempe).

I am waiting for more data, but last night I was able to go on highway (15 miles one way, 202 San Tan/I10) both ways, with 61% SOC left (from 100%; in the weekends, driving is 75 - 80 miles/h to keep with the flow). Before, I would have been like 25% at half point - no way to go back on highway.
Click to expand...

the "it will be 60-90 days for your replacement pack to show up" is the standard Nissan disclaimer. Most of what I heard puts the real time at 4-10 days.
 
drees said:
silverone said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand there HAS to be some degradation based on battery chemistry, but it's just not being reported as a significant event on these cars.
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INL has tested the Volt and found that when testing the battery out of the car, capacity is definitely being lost.

For example:
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-chevrolet-volt

After 130k miles and 3 years, the 4 Volts they tested about 9-10% capacity loss.

Compare this to the '13 LEAFs which lost 14-16% in about a year and 15k miles.

FWIW, the '13 Ford Focus EVs they tested also lost about 10% capacity in about a year and 12k miles, despite having thermal management.

Whatever secret sauce GM has in their LG packs, it appears to be working.
Click to expand...


sorry but comparing 100% EVs to a gasser with a pack is never going to work
 
arnis said:
Same happened with me. It went down 3-4% SOH during summer. Down to 90%.
As soon as autumn came it started going up again. Now it is stable at 94%. Whole month.

It appears health comes back when battery temp drops, something like 10*C doing that.
67000km for now. 2014 Leaf.
Click to expand...

any change in driving patterns or charging patterns that might play a part in the increase?

For me; the weather change means deeper cycling when charging which can boost the numbers as well. here is my 2013 S build date 11/13 at 44,500 miles. 44500 mile stat small.jpg
 
No. Charging/driving pattern did not change. DC charging will push up Hx (and maybe SOH) for a while
but not in this case.
I'm pretty sure just temperature does that. Year before I also noticed a heavy drop in spring.
Did not see the rise as I wasn't LeafSpy user that time.
It might also just be a number and not real capacity difference. BMS is complicated :)
 
I just purchased my 2013 SV last month. The manufacture date is 8/2013 and was originally sold in 10/2013 from Boulder Nissan in Boulder, CO, which is where I bought it as well with 28,500 miles on it. I've put another 1200 on it since then, but it still has all 12 bars. LeafSpy gives the following:

AHr = 60.07
SOH = 91%
GIDS = 261 at indicated 100% charge on the dash, 97.2 SOC in LeafSpy

Overall I think this will be a great buy for me at $9,000.
 
Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.
 
Phatcat73 said:
Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.
Click to expand...

I noticed in your signature that you have a 2015 with about 53 Ahr. Have you lost a bar on that car yet?
 
Phatcat73 said:
Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.
Click to expand...

any change in driving or charging habits? what is max TBs you saw over the Summer? I had drop over same time period 13S build date 11/13 but only went to low 57's after low usage covering a 1½ weeks. Normal usage brought me back to mid 58's
 
I just lost my first capacity bar on my 2013 Nissan Leaf. Here are my stats:

MY13 (took delivery 10/13)
Location: Northern Colorado
Date of loss: 2/6/17
Mileage at loss: 51604
AHr: 55.18
SOH: 84%
Hx: 81.57
L1/L2 charges: 3029
QC: 37

I try to leave my LEAF outside at night to cool off the battery. We moved to charging to 100% in the morning every weekday (just prior to departure) in the last year or so to make up for capacity loss.
 
bpnugent, what are your driving habits? I mean what % do you usually park at? Do you go to low battery or very low battery warning or turtle regularly or at all? It sounds like you charged to 80% until recently. Also you have about 20k more miles than most 13s I've seen and more L1/L2 charges so you must drive a lot! Lastly what is the build date on the driver's door jam?
 
bpnugent said:
I just lost my first capacity bar on my 2013 Nissan Leaf. Here are my stats:

MY13 (took delivery 10/13)
Location: Northern Colorado
Date of loss: 2/6/17
Mileage at loss: 51604
AHr: 55.18
SOH: 84%
Hx: 81.57
L1/L2 charges: 3029
QC: 37

I try to leave my LEAF outside at night to cool off the battery. We moved to charging to 100% in the morning every weekday (just prior to departure) in the last year or so to make up for capacity loss.
Click to expand...

So you do generally charge in your garage? I would think that Colorado would not see consistently high temps? But I guess that depends on your elevation
 
VitaminJ said:
bpnugent, what are your driving habits? I mean what % do you usually park at? Do you go to low battery or very low battery warning or turtle regularly or at all? It sounds like you charged to 80% until recently. Also you have about 20k more miles than most 13s I've seen and more L1/L2 charges so you must drive a lot! Lastly what is the build date on the driver's door jam?
Click to expand...

I do try to park overnight between 30% and 50%. I read somewhere that 30% is the sweet spot for degradation, but I don't want to sacrifice all of the convenience of being able to hop into the car at a moment's notice. Like I said, I do try to park outside to get the battery as cold as possible. I realize this sacrifices short term capacity for longer life, but I've preferred this trade-off. I've never seen the turtle, but I have gotten under 1kW remaining in LeafSpy ("---" on both battery display and miles) around 10-15 times. I tried to keep it at 80% for as long as I could, but the capacity loss was starting to bug my wife (the primary driver) starting around a year ago. I very rarely kept it charged at 100% for very long and targeted departure time to charge completion as close as I could. My wife is the taxi driver, and we live about 4 miles from the edge of town, so she accumulates quite a bit just doing that.

I didn't check the door jamb this morning, but I custom ordered it and it only sat on the lot a few days before I picked it up on 10/4/2013.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
bpnugent said:
I just lost my first capacity bar on my 2013 Nissan Leaf. Here are my stats:

MY13 (took delivery 10/13)
Location: Northern Colorado
Date of loss: 2/6/17
Mileage at loss: 51604
AHr: 55.18
SOH: 84%
Hx: 81.57
L1/L2 charges: 3029
QC: 37

I try to leave my LEAF outside at night to cool off the battery. We moved to charging to 100% in the morning every weekday (just prior to departure) in the last year or so to make up for capacity loss.
Click to expand...

So you do generally charge in your garage? I would think that Colorado would not see consistently high temps? But I guess that depends on your elevation
Click to expand...

I do primarily charge and store in my garage during the day, and try to get it outside at night. The temperature difference between the high and low on any given day is pretty high- 30 degrees or so. Dry and 5,000 feet. There are really only a couple of months where you can see temps in the 90's fairly consistently. I've only seen my temperature bars get to 7 twice ever, and I'm usually able to get down to 5 bars overnight even in the worst months.
 
I took possession of a used 2013 SV (Build 07/13) last week. It had one bar missing and I inspected it with LeafSpy prior. Prior to delivery, it was 53.60 AHr, but in the last week it has already dropped to 53.2 AHr, and I've barely driven it! I have only charged to 100% once but otherwise, it has been between 30-80% SOC.

While I hate to use the term "normal".... is this consistent with other user's experience? I am in Houston Texas, but the weather has been mild the last week. Battery capacity warranty runs through August 2018.
 
bpnugent said:
I just lost my first capacity bar on my 2013 Nissan Leaf. Here are my stats:

MY13 (took delivery 10/13)
Date of loss: 2/6/17
Click to expand...

How about the date of manufacture from the driver door jamb label?
 
Leaf Spy varies wildly with ambient temperatures in my experience. My reading has been +/- up to 7AHr with daily monitoring over 2 months.
 
silverone said:
Leaf Spy varies wildly with ambient temperatures in my experience. My reading has been +/- up to 7AHr with daily monitoring over 2 months.
Click to expand...
I've never seen swings in AHr THAT wide in my over 1 year of monitoring, almost daily.

If the values are valid (e.g. actually connected w/green rectangle and counter inside changing), I'd say the AHr values have not varied more than about 2 from the highest to lowest in a several month rolling period and that's really extreme. Generally, it's within 1.0 AHr in a rolling 1 month period. (No, I don't have a spreadsheet where I input the numbers but I do take screenshots and make a rough note.)
 
cwerdna said:
silverone said:
Leaf Spy varies wildly with ambient temperatures in my experience. My reading has been +/- up to 7AHr with daily monitoring over 2 months.
Click to expand...
I've never seen swings in AHr THAT wide in my over 1 year of monitoring, almost daily.

If the values are valid (e.g. actually connected w/green rectangle and counter inside changing), I'd say the AHr values have not varied more than about 2 from the highest to lowest in a several month rolling period and that's really extreme. Generally, it's within 1.0 AHr in a rolling 1 month period. (No, I don't have a spreadsheet where I input the numbers but I do take screenshots and make a rough note.)
Click to expand...

Our temperature swings may be much higher. Here are some sample values of high and low peaks with most other daily and intraday readings in line with overall temperature swings. Excerpts from Dropbox logs.

Date.................Ambient(avg)................................AHr
3/9...............................50.......................................62.00
3/4...............................27.......................................66.047
2/24.............................67.......................................59.409
2/18.............................57.......................................64.55
2/3...............................23.......................................67.284
1/23.............................55.......................................62.588
1/17.............................34.......................................65.034
 
^^^
I've never seen swings like that. I suspect some of the outliers are actually invalid values.

I've never even turned on the Dropbox uploading and didn't realize it even existed until now :oops:, as I glossed over that part of settings.

I'm just looking at the AHr, SOH, Hx, etc. screen w/all the cell voltages when I know I have a valid connection and taking screenshots. If other values in the Dropbox data file for that row are totally messed up (e.g. 0 or totally unreasonable) on those outlier AHr readings, then I suspect you weren't connected at the time and they're just garbage uninitialized values. I'd toss the data for those rows completely.

I've seen all sorts of non-sensical and/or useless values when Leaf Spy isn't connected (isn't showing green rectangle in the lower right w/the numbers counting up then starting over).

I just checked all my screenshots going from now back to mid-Dec 2016 and my AHr reading has ALWAYS been 56.xx to 57.xx. The same goes when skimming View Trip Log going all the way back to Oct 2016.
 

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