Going to run a circuit - Siemens Versicharge?

I'm going to have a dedicated circuit run for charging and I'm trying to decide if I should go in-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound. The circuit run should be easy - my garage is on basement level so it's just a matter of having an electrician wire into the breaker box (I have a spare 30 amp breaker for an electric range that I replaced with a gas range so I'm not using that circuit) and then just running the cable along the rafters over to the garage and putting an outlet there.

For my needs L1 charging will be completely sufficient. If I ever NEED to drive farther than I can charge up for I can just drive a different car that day. It'd be great to avoid that and to also have more efficient charging. Plus I'd love to keep my L1 charger in the car permanently, so I'm considering getting a L2.

The Siemens Versicharge looks good and has gotten positive reviews from everyone, and it's not too expensive. I have 2 questions:

1) There's an "Indoor Only" model and an outdoor rated model and I can't figure out if that's just referring to the box or also saying that the car needs to be indoors while charging. If it's the box then great - it'll be mounted in my garage. I'd like to charge the car while it's in the driveway, though.

2) This may be a question for the electrician more than anything, but I have 100 amp service to my house and with the AC, dryer, and car charging all at once I'll probably be pulling a fair amount of amps (Something like 60-70?). Of course with an L2 charger it'd be easier for me to simply not charge the car while the dryer's going because I won't need to charge it for as long. I only have a 3.3kw charger on my Leaf so for now I think I should be just fine, but theoretically in the future it could be an issue. For my use I guess as long as I keep in mind that I just need to upgrade the service when I get my next EV (hopefully 10+ years from now) it won't be an issue.

Comments?

The Siemens seems to be a well priced EVSE, my one complaint would probably be it's rather short(14') cable for the ~$430 hard wired version although the slightly more expensive(by ~$70) plug version has a longer(20') cord.
The Siemens has the advantage of being able to delay your charge although with a Leaf you can do that with it's charging timer so not sure how big of a benefit that would be.
Another even cheaper option would be the(arguably very ugly) GE Durastation from Home Depot or any place that sells it for the $399 retail. Amazon sometimes sells it for $399 but often times(like now) has sellers gouging it for $500 and above which IMO is a ripoff. The GE is a basic no frills 30a EVSE which for ~$10 your electrician should be able to add a 14-50 pigtail plug if you wanted and I'd suggest. The GE doesn't offer delayed charge and has a 18' cord so a little longer than the basic Siemens and slightly cheaper.
With a 100 amp service I believe 80a is the max you could consider for continuous use, 60-70a is cutting it a bit close although with either the GE or Seimens you can limit the maximum output, maybe 20a would be a better fit for your current service, then if you upgrade your panel you can change the jumpers and set the EVSE for it's full 30a output(which would require a minimum 40a breaker and 8 gauge wire). With your 30a breaker you'd have to limit the EVSE to no more than 24a which I believe both EVSEs allow via jumpers.
From what I can tell the whole indoor/outdoor thing has to due with the unit being hardwired vs plugable, they look to have the same case.

Regarding the charging timer on the Leaf - It only lets you set a stop time, doesn't it? I have the S without nav and the manual seemed to say that the way it works is that you set a stop time and then if it can get to 100% before that time it'll delay until it calculates it needs to start, and then start at that time.

If that's correct then the delayed start on the Siemans could be really useful. Especially because I could set it to start later in the evening after I know the dryer will be done.

With a 3.3kw charger on the Leaf, won't I be limited to 20 amp draw, anyway?

powagoat said:

Regarding the charging timer on the Leaf - It only lets you set a stop time, doesn't it? I have the S without nav and the manual seemed to say that the way it works is that you set a stop time and then if it can get to 100% before that time it'll delay until it calculates it needs to start, and then start at that time.

If that's correct then the delayed start on the Siemans could be really useful. Especially because I could set it to start later in the evening after I know the dryer will be done.

With a 3.3kw charger on the Leaf, won't I be limited to 20 amp draw, anyway?

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Correct, I also have a S model and it only lets you set the end time. The 3.6kw Leaf maxes out at 16a or a 20a circuit for continuous charging. Which Seimens were you looing at, hardwired or plug in? again I'd consider the 14' cord to be a big limitation but if it's not in your case then either would work for you.

If I only charge outside the 14' would be fine, but it wouldn't reach the other garage bay where the Leaf would be parked if I wanted to put it in the garage... It's certainly worth consideration to pony up the extra dollars for the more expensive one.

Thanks!

I would use that 30 amp double breaker and pull #8 wire to a hardwired LCS-30 (Clipper Creek $500)
25' cord

https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/lcs-30-24-amp-ev-charging-station?sort=p.model&order=ASC

powagoat said:

With a 3.3kw charger on the Leaf, won't I be limited to 20 amp draw, anyway?

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More like 13.75.

wmcbrine said:

powagoat said:

With a 3.3kw charger on the Leaf, won't I be limited to 20 amp draw, anyway?

Click to expand...

More like 13.75.

Click to expand...

Contrary to what many around here like to say, a 3.3kw charger is actually 3.6kw and draws a max of 16a @ 240v, I know and have one and measured the draw

Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

powagoat said:

Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

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I think thats where the confusion lies, 3.6kw in, 3.3kw out
Not sure why everyone says 6.6kw for the faster Leaf as that one is 6.6kw in and probably 6.3kw out but no one ever says 6.3kw :?
Another possible explanation is with a 3.6kw leaf is it's only 3.6kw @ 240v, on commercial 208v power the same Leaf would only output 3.3kw but they'd both draw 16a max current, you just get more power if the voltage is higher. So really 2 possible explanations of why one would say 3.3kw charger but again what I don't understand is no one really says 6.3kw charger :?
Oh BTW a 6.6kw Leaf charger draws a maximum of 27.5a on either 240v or 208v and well I guess 120v if your EVSE will go that high on 120v and you have a >30a 120v circuit. The 3.6kw Leaf chargers top out at only 12a @120v no matter your circuit or EVSE potential, a significant drawback IMO.

I had an electrician check it out and he didn't see any problem adding the circuit. Getting a quote from him and a couple others.

Although I did discover that my entire basement isn't on a single 30 amp so there is a chance that I might not do it... But man, to have quicker charging would be nice.

jjeff said:

powagoat said:

Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

Click to expand...

I think thats where the confusion lies, 3.6kw in, 3.3kw out
Not sure why everyone says 6.6kw for the faster Leaf as that one is 6.6kw in and probably 6.3kw out but no one ever says 6.3kw :?
Another possible explanation is with a 3.6kw leaf is it's only 3.6kw @ 240v, on commercial 208v power the same Leaf would only output 3.3kw but they'd both draw 16a max current, you just get more power if the voltage is higher. So really 2 possible explanations of why one would say 3.3kw charger but again what I don't understand is no one really says 6.3kw charger :?
Oh BTW a 6.6kw Leaf charger draws a maximum of 27.5a on either 240v or 208v and well I guess 120v if your EVSE will go that high on 120v and you have a >30a 120v circuit. The 3.6kw Leaf chargers top out at only 12a @120v no matter your circuit or EVSE potential, a significant drawback IMO.

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2011 LEAF would draw more current at 208 volts (if EVSE allowed) so net was still about 3.3 kW to battery--later models are probably similar. Regarding EVSE recommendations--for the OP situation I recommend the Clipper Creek LCS-30P with 14-30 plug. This would take full advantage of the existing 30-ampere breaker and the new 4-wire receptacle would be a way to supply other 240/120-volt loads in the garage, if necessary. Since supply cords on UL Listed plug-connected EVSEs are only 12 inches overall length (including plug), it is best to determine EVSE mounting location before installing the receptacle.

Gerry

GerryAZ said:

jjeff said:

powagoat said:

Makes sense. 300 watts of overhead it consistent with what I've heard, so when they say 3.3kw they actually mean 3.3kw going into the battery. Cool.

Click to expand...

I think thats where the confusion lies, 3.6kw in, 3.3kw out
Not sure why everyone says 6.6kw for the faster Leaf as that one is 6.6kw in and probably 6.3kw out but no one ever says 6.3kw :?
Another possible explanation is with a 3.6kw leaf is it's only 3.6kw @ 240v, on commercial 208v power the same Leaf would only output 3.3kw but they'd both draw 16a max current, you just get more power if the voltage is higher. So really 2 possible explanations of why one would say 3.3kw charger but again what I don't understand is no one really says 6.3kw charger :?
Oh BTW a 6.6kw Leaf charger draws a maximum of 27.5a on either 240v or 208v and well I guess 120v if your EVSE will go that high on 120v and you have a >30a 120v circuit. The 3.6kw Leaf chargers top out at only 12a @120v no matter your circuit or EVSE potential, a significant drawback IMO.

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2011 LEAF would draw more current at 208 volts (if EVSE allowed) so net was still about 3.3 kW to battery--later models are probably similar.
.....
Gerry

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Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.

jjeff said:

Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.

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I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.

GerryAZ said:

jjeff said:

Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.

Click to expand...

I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.

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I do see it vary(get lower) as my car gets closer to 100% so it's not just what the EVSE is set to(which I generally leave at 30a). Unfortunately I don't have an easy way of measuring current where I use 208v but at home(240v nominal) my clamp on ammeter also reads between 27 and 28a at full charging. So to answer your question I'm not positive how the EVSE gets it current display or if it's a true ammeter, I just assumed it was.

GerryAZ said:

jjeff said:

Interesting, my '13 Leaf draws a max of 27.5a(my 30a EVSE has an ammeter) on either 208(sometimes as low as 202v, it has a volt meter built in too) up to 240v so I get faster charging on 240v as opposed to 208v, about 15% faster. My '12 draws 16a on either 208v or 240v so again will charge a bit faster on 240v, never used an '11 though.

Click to expand...

I wonder if the metering in your EVSE is true RMS. My 2015 typically draws 26.4 amperes at nominal 240 volts (less if voltage is higher) and 29.8 amperes at nominal 208 volts as measured with a revenue accuracy meter connected ahead of my AeroVironment 30-ampere EVSE. I get similar readings with my Fluke true RMS clamp on ammeter. Although I don't remember exact numbers, the 2011 would draw about 16 amperes at 240 and 18 amperes at 208.

Click to expand...

I have measured Tesla , Nisson, and VW EVSE's. They all are corrected for power factor. Nearly all cheap voltmeters are peak reading and calibrated for RMS. On a sine wave that is fine and the EVSE's look like sine waves instead of the square waves a normal switching supply looks like.

As long as the poster runs a dedicated 20A circuit it can easily be re-purposed into a 240V circuit by moving the nuetral and replacing the breaker and outlet. 20A is good for a 16A EVSE (80% of 20A).

On my 2013 Leaf the car's built in charger went up to 27.5A at 120V. This far exceeds the J1772 120V specification. My eGolf is the same way. It seems that the chargers only limit current. The supplied EVSE is set for 12A and the car respects that.