Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tesla Adds Supercharger Payment Section By kWh For Model 3 On Website

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. . . How future Model 3 users would gain access, and at what cost has been a topic of discussion ever since. Will it be pay as you go? Standard with more premium trim levels? How would the Supercharging sessions be charged? By visit? By month? By kWh?

Today, the website EV.network may have figured it out, as they uncovered some new bits of added code on the company’s MyTesla page.

One of the new sections has a spot ready for Supercharging payments to be made via credit card. . . .

And another where it lists the accumulation of “Supercharging Credits”, and it appears to suggest that Supercharging stops for the Model 3 will be billed by kWhs!. . . .

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LeftieBiker said:

What's the current wait time for a Model 3? I'm guessing it's longer than the 8 months I have left on my lease extension?

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DanCar said:

LeftieBiker said:

What's the current wait time for a Model 3? I'm guessing it's longer than the 8 months I have left on my lease extension?

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Two years is a good estimate.

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10 True Facts From Tesla’s Model 3 CAEATFA Application

...According to the Model 3 CAEATFA application Tesla filed last year and which have been obtained exclusively by the Daily Kanban:
Tesla wrote that “Similar to our Model X, we expect Model 3 to be an extremely popular vehicle.” Yes, they actually wrote that.
Tesla estimates the Model 3’s efficiency at 318 wh/mile.
Tesla estimates the Model 3’s average transaction price will be $43,014.
The pre-tax profit margin on the Model 3 is anticipated to be 11%, according to Tesla’s CAEATFA form.
Tesla is currently developing gearboxes along with battery packs and electric motors as part of its R&D activities at its Palo Alto headquarters.
Model 3 production will share about 20% of the Gen 2 (Model S and Model X) production equipment at the Fremont plant and elsewhere.
The Model 3 expansion will expand Tesla’s California workforce by 5,600 jobs, up from 9,200 in September 2015.
Tesla has identified locations in California where it anticipates creating new manufacturing facilities for component materials currently supplied by its non-California suppliers.
Tesla estimates that California will make up demand for 20% of its vehicles for the foreseeable future.
CAEATFA is providing Tesla with $392,775 in tax relief for each new job created by the Model 3 investment...

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edatoakrun said:

The DK has been able to find a redacted copy of TSLA's application for California tax benefits (Which TSLA is asking to increase to ~$5.8 billion!?) based on model 3 production, and here's their top ten list for what it reveals:

10 True Facts From Tesla’s Model 3 CAEATFA Application

...According to the Model 3 CAEATFA application Tesla filed last year and which have been obtained exclusively by the Daily Kanban:
Tesla wrote that “Similar to our Model X, we expect Model 3 to be an extremely popular vehicle.” Yes, they actually wrote that.
Tesla estimates the Model 3’s efficiency at 318 wh/mile.
Tesla estimates the Model 3’s average transaction price will be $43,014.
The pre-tax profit margin on the Model 3 is anticipated to be 11%, according to Tesla’s CAEATFA form.
Tesla is currently developing gearboxes along with battery packs and electric motors as part of its R&D activities at its Palo Alto headquarters.
Model 3 production will share about 20% of the Gen 2 (Model S and Model X) production equipment at the Fremont plant and elsewhere.
The Model 3 expansion will expand Tesla’s California workforce by 5,600 jobs, up from 9,200 in September 2015.
Tesla has identified locations in California where it anticipates creating new manufacturing facilities for component materials currently supplied by its non-California suppliers.
Tesla estimates that California will make up demand for 20% of its vehicles for the foreseeable future.
CAEATFA is providing Tesla with $392,775 in tax relief for each new job created by the Model 3 investment...

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http://dailykanban.com/2016/10/10-true-facts-teslas-model-3-caeatfa-application/

The entire 35 page application posted here:

http://cdn.dailykanban.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/CAEATFA_Application-TESLA-11-16-2015_Redacted.pdf

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abasile said:

<span>Providing tax relief in connection with the manufacture of EVs is a smart move for the state of California. This dovetails with the state's climate goals, helps the state compete with others for good manufacturing-related jobs, and doesn't really cost anything when compared with the scenario of those businesses (i.e., <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a>) leaving for lower-cost states as so many others have done.</span>

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Rebel44 said:

edatoakrun said:

...The entire 35 page application posted here:

http://cdn.dailykanban.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/CAEATFA_Application-TESLA-11-16-2015_Redacted.pdf

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Based on that pdf, its a request for elimination of sales tax from equipment that Tesla wants to buy for manufacture of Model 3. Value of that sales tax would otherwise be around $100M

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edatoakrun said:

Rebel44 said:

edatoakrun said:

...The entire 35 page application posted here:

http://cdn.dailykanban.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/CAEATFA_Application-TESLA-11-16-2015_Redacted.pdf

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Based on that pdf, its a request for elimination of sales tax from equipment that Tesla wants to buy for manufacture of Model 3. Value of that sales tax would otherwise be around $100M

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Where do you see that?

I couldn't find any way to estimate the total cost in a quick perusal of the application, nor could I find a some of the other top ten facts in the story.

In fairness to the DK, I was mistaken when I asked the ~$5.8 billion!? question, as the story says: "...CAEATFA is providing Tesla with $392,775 in tax relief for each new job created by the Model 3 investment..." and "...The Model 3 expansion will expand Tesla’s California workforce by 5,600 jobs..." so apparently the total cost for just those model 3 jobs is reported as ~$2.2 B.

Sounds improbable to me, at least unless it includes other CA tax benefits outside the scope of the application.

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Tesla Model S re-earns Consumer Reports’ recommendation on improved reliability

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GRA said:

Back up to 'average'

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jlv said:

GRA said:

Back up to 'average'

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Probably better to post that comment in the Model S thread.

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GRA said:

jlv said:

GRA said:

Back up to 'average'

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Probably better to post that comment in the Model S thread.

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Urk, that's were it was meant to go. Brain fart. Can a mod move it, please?

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Summary
Tesla will release earnings this week and will likely tell or show us more about their Model 3 car. Some Model 3 details could greatly impact company success.
Battery chemistry improvements from modest to spectacular have been reported by Tesla and others. What we learn about Model 3 may tell us how Tesla/Panasonic are doing.
At Model 3 introduction, the car was missing an external charging port. The location and design of the charge port may tell us something about Tesla's SuperCharger plans.
Some form of Head Up Display is anticipated for Model 3. How the HUD is implemented may tell us something interesting about the Tesla/Panasonic relationship.
Looking carefully at what Tesla describes or shows about Model 3 may tell a lot about costs, business strategy, market success and the Tesla/Panasonic relationship.

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lorenfb said:

Interesting perspective on what might be revealed about the Model 3 tomorrow.

Summary
Tesla will release earnings this week and will likely tell or show us more about their Model 3 car. Some Model 3 details could greatly impact company success.
Battery chemistry improvements from modest to spectacular have been reported by Tesla and others. What we learn about Model 3 may tell us how Tesla/Panasonic are doing.
At Model 3 introduction, the car was missing an external charging port. The location and design of the charge port may tell us something about Tesla's SuperCharger plans.
Some form of Head Up Display is anticipated for Model 3. How the HUD is implemented may tell us something interesting about the Tesla/Panasonic relationship.
Looking carefully at what Tesla describes or shows about Model 3 may tell a lot about costs, business strategy, market success and the Tesla/Panasonic relationship.

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http://seekingalpha.com/article/4048049-tesla-model-3-update-look?source=email_rt_article_readmore&auth_param=1adagi:1capo64:a7a6a0b24658eeeef1e5f1b548140c15&uprof=44&dr=1

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Dahn’s research focuses on increasing the energy density and lifetime of Li-ion batteries in order to drive down costs of Tesla’s automotive and grid energy storage products.

He works mostly with NMC Li-ion cells, Tesla’s preferred chemistry for battery cells, and his keynote address titled “Surprising Chemistry in Li-Ion Cells” will discuss how they could stop harmful reactions in those cells in order to increase their capacity:

It is important to increase the operating voltage of NMC Li-ion cells to obtain higher energy density. However, the electrolyte reacts with the positive electrode at high voltage. Using simple experiments involving only pouch bags, we show that the products of these reactions are extremely harmful to the positive electrode. This talk demonstrates how these harmful reactions at the positive electrode can be virtually stopped, leading to superb NMC Li-ion cells that can operate at high potential.

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Dahn’s presentation will follow Kelty’s on March 22 at the International Battery Seminar & Exhibit in Fort Lauderdale.

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RegGuheert said:

<snip>This article at Electrek gives a clue about what might be coming from Tesla regarding battery technology:

Dahn’s research focuses on increasing the energy density and lifetime of Li-ion batteries in order to drive down costs of Tesla’s automotive and grid energy storage products.

He works mostly with NMC Li-ion cells, Tesla’s preferred chemistry for battery cells <snip>

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GRA said:

Tesla uses NCA not NMC in the Model S/X batteries, so I'm not sure if this article's claim is correct. Maybe Tesla is planning to change over.

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dgpcolorado said:

GRA said:

Tesla uses NCA not NMC in the Model S/X batteries, so I'm not sure if this article's claim is correct. Maybe Tesla is planning to change over.

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Doesn't Tesla use NMC for Powerpack and Powerwall applications? That could be the reason for the reference.

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Summary
Tesla's 10-K offers new detail on how the Model 3 is coming along.
The detail, stemming from Elon Musk's option milestones, is at odds with Tesla's public pronouncements.
The article also covers a few other details from Tesla's 10-K.
Conclusion
The main conclusion to be drawn here is that Tesla's present schedule for delivering the Model 3 in volume is wildly unrealistic. We now know for a fact that the Model 3 Beta prototype wasn't even ready when the 10-K was written.
Even being optimistic, and ascribing a shorter testing period for the Model 3, still puts volume production around March 2018, or six months later than what Tesla has been saying. While volume production should start only during 2018, the heavy purchase commitments associated with Model 3 will start hitting during 2017. Moreover, the Model 3 will be a life and death bet by Tesla, given the weight of such commitments when compared to its capital structure. A more expensive Model 3, a lower volume Model 3 or a Model 3 subjected to fierce competition can all lead to Tesla quickly falling into dire straits.

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