Range in very cold weather

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None of the dealers in my area would even think about letting a new car out for a 24 hour test drive. I tried to set one up for a Bolt, and they basically ignore the request.
 
I live in Gunnison, where the temperatures aren't that different than Canada. It's -22*C (-8*F) right now. I've driven at -36*C (-33*F).

I got the Leaf because it meets my needs even in this weather. Actually it's quite nice to get in and have the heater start working from the start.

Yesterday I had to drive my ICE for the first time in months (it was a very unusual situation). Like always, I don't like to idle since that's actually worse for the environment and engine. But getting in and driving it wasn't any better. I drove 5 miles to my destination and by the time I got there the temperature gauge was just barely moving.

In my Leaf I always preheat the car on charging power when I can. Even off of the 120V EVSE makes a difference in range compared to getting in and having to use the heater without any charging power. The heated seats both front and back are nice since I do carry passengers in the back. This allows me to reduce heater use. The heat pump isn't of any help in reducing energy draw during the bitter cold. But now that things are warming up the heat pump should help raise efficiency from here on into June, as well as any cold days in July or August, and then become a daily used feature September onward.

I do get as low as a 30 mile range in my Leaf during the brutal cold. I did make sure I had a 6.6kW charger and a 40A 240V EVSE mounted on the house. That way I can come charge for an hour during lunch, or whenever, and get twice the charge rate as the 3.3kW charged Leafs do.

My recommendation would be to get an SV or SL. Make sure it has rear heated seats if you regularly have passengers in the rear. Make sure you get a 40A 240V EVSE. The limited worse-case-scenario of 35 miles in a 30kWh Leaf should be factored in your decision. But remember to explore charging options such as charging at work or along the way. 30 miles to work, charge, 30 miles back, charge during dinner and time with family, and then 30 miles to the store, family or friends and back, then charge during the night, can make for 90 miles total per day even in a worse case scenario.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The limited worse-case-scenario of 35 miles in a 30kWh Leaf should be factored in your decision.

Did you mean 24kwh Leaf, or did someone actually manage to get only 35 miles from a 30kwh Leaf?
I've seen close to that with a 24kWh Leaf in sub zero temps, windy and maybe a bit of snow, I'd hope to get at least 40+ miles with the 30kWh Leaf.....
 
jjeff said:
LeftieBiker said:
The limited worse-case-scenario of 35 miles in a 30kWh Leaf should be factored in your decision.

Did you mean 24kwh Leaf, or did someone actually manage to get only 35 miles from a 30kwh Leaf?
I've seen close to that with a 24kWh Leaf in sub zero temps, windy and maybe a bit of snow, I'd hope to get at least 40+ miles with the 30kWh Leaf.....

So what worst case scenario would give only 35 miles in a 30 KW Leaf. At minus 10 you would still be north of 80. Does it make that much difference dropping another 15 degrees. ?
 
Try driving at -30*F at night with two women in the car talking. Or when snow pack starts to melt after a freak winter called "snowmagedon" and you got to keep the pedal pushed nearly to the metal to keep a speed of 20mph. Once I got stuck in a snow bank with chains on... in a parking lot, and used several % you get out of it.

Anyhow there have been a few days I have averaged close to 1.5k miles per kWh, and many times couldn't keep that even on flat ground going a steady speed. How far would a 30kWh Leaf go at 1.5 miles per kWh?

But that's not every day. All January I averaged 2.4 miles per kWh. Now I'm averaging above 3 every day. By summer I hope to be averaging above 4.
 
LeftieBiker said:
How far would a 30kWh Leaf go at 1.5 miles per kWh?

Close to 50 miles. Call it 45.

Is my math wrong or are you saying that the 30kWh Leafs actual put out 34kWh of energy? (50/1.5=33.33333) :mrgreen:

That would be awesome if it were true!

The way I see it a 24kWh Leaf only puts out 21kWh when brand new or 87.5%. So a 30kWh Leaf must put out about the same or (30 x 87.5%) 26.25kWh. Now take that and multiply it by 1.5 miles per kWh and you get 39.4 miles until dead, on the side of the road.
 
IssacZachary said:
Try driving at -30*F at night with two women in the car talking. Or when snow pack starts to melt after a freak winter called "snowmagedon" and you got to keep the pedal pushed nearly to the metal to keep a speed of 20mph. Once I got stuck in a snow bank with chains on... in a parking lot, and used several % you get out of it.

Anyhow there have been a few days I have averaged close to 1.5k miles per kWh, and many times couldn't keep that even on flat ground going a steady speed. How far would a 30kWh Leaf go at 1.5 miles per kWh?




But that's not every day. All January I averaged 2.4 miles per kWh. Now I'm averaging above 3 every day. By summer I hope to be averaging above 4.

Yah I can see that. Wow. I think I'll try to avoid those conditions. :)

Thanks for the info.

John
 
IssacZachary said:
LeftieBiker said:
How far would a 30kWh Leaf go at 1.5 miles per kWh?

Close to 50 miles. Call it 45.

Is my math wrong or are you saying that the 30kWh Leafs actual put out 34kWh of energy? (50/1.5=33.33333) :mrgreen:

That would be awesome if it were true!

The way I see it a 24kWh Leaf only puts out 21kWh when brand new or 87.5%. So a 30kWh Leaf must put out about the same or (30 x 87.5%) 26.25kWh. Now take that and multiply it by 1.5 miles per kWh and you get 39.4 miles until dead, on the side of the road.

I think that the 30kwh Leaf only reserves the same amount (2 kwh) as the 24, but I don't know that. So I guess 40-42 miles. Don't you get more than 1.5 m/kwh when traveling longer distances?
 
LeftieBiker said:
I think that the 30kwh Leaf only reserves the same amount (2 kwh) as the 24, but I don't know that. So I guess 40-42 miles. Don't you get more than 1.5 m/kwh when traveling longer distances?

Generally yes. Of course it's all relative and dependent on various factors. I don't know about Canada but around here the highways tend to be better plowed than the streets. Also there's the fact that as far a the heater goes, the quicker you can get to your destination the better. Like being stuck in traffic for several hours waiting for the crew to clear an avalanche won't do your range very good if you keep the heater on.

But yes,I admit that 35 miles is a very bad worse case scenario.
 
FWIW, I'm in Ottawa and have a 15 SV (24 kWh battery) and have been getting around 70-80km range with the recent cold snap (it's been between 0F to 15F during my drives the past week). I should mention that my commute is pretty much all highway and I typically set the cruise to 105 km/h (65 mph) (which I think is actually closer to 100 km/h / 60 mph). If you drive on slower roads, it will certainly increase your range.

Below around 10F, the heat pump doesn't seem to make any difference.
 
Side question about sub zero (F) weather:
Is it common to only have 3 or sometimes only 2 available "bubbles" left of regen when the battery is down to 3 temp bars? (SOC wasn't a factor since it happened at all SOC's during the day, I realize you get less "bubbles" when it's closer to 100%)
 
I ran some errands this evening, using full heat at first and then Eco mode heat. I traveled 29 miles in mostly lower speed driving (no 55MPH at all) and taking minimal range extending precautions - mainly partial recirculate. I added about 10% charge at a Kohl's (the charging station cable felt like solid copper, and didn't want to bend), and got home with 17% SOC. I estimate my range under those conditions, in this +5 to 0F weather, is 35 whole miles. This with 12 bars showing, but one near dropping.
 
binks said:
I bought the 2017 SV 30kwh
That's a very appropriate handle for a Leaf driver given what someone observed at https://priuschat.com/threads/star-trek-related-specials-documentaries-discussion.100859/page-3#post-2423421. :shock: :mrgreen:
 
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