Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

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Hey Sparky!

Yeah, the re-focusing on the rear-view monitor is interesting. Obviously an individual thing that'll depend somewhat on one's own ocular peculiarities, and we haven't driven it long enough to know if it'll become reflexive over time. My lovely better half says she needs to tilt her head up and look through the lower part of her blended bifocals to be able to focus it at all. She plans to order sunglasses with upper quadrants that have a prescription designed for close vision just for this purpose. But she also says that this is her favorite feature of the car. Myself, I think I'll just get used to it. I did try it at night and wound up switching to the regular rear view mirror, which is quite good and is self-dimming. The monitor view at night was muddy and lacked definition.

No, we plan to hang on to both of our, count-em, two (2) Model 3 reservations. We will likely use one for a Model 3 to replace my BMW i3 when its lease ends mid-April 2018. The other might go to my son or to a friend (I realize they aren't transferable, but I could buy the car and re-sell it.)

As for the PV covering the fully electric driving, nope. Up to now, driving one EV, we were under-generating by between 1,000 and 2,000 kWh per year but never accruing an actual bill by end of net metering year because of the magic of TOU rates and night time charging. Driving two EVs, I expect we will actually have to start paying some kind of an electric bill for the first time in 10 years. Imagine that!

Hope to see you at a meetup sometime soon. The Bolt will be at the next two in March, at least.
 
Yo Sparky, I just drove the Bolt again for a short jaunt and I found myself automatically tilting my head up to use the lower (reading) portion of my progressive lenses when I looked in that monitor mirror. Suddenly, I had no issue adjusting my eyes from the road to the mirror and back. Problem solved for me, though as I recall, you don't wear glasses, right? You might need a pair of reading glasses if you get a Bolt and drive it often.
 
GRA said:
Per IEVS, Feb. Bolt sales dropped to 952 (#5), below the LEAF (1,037; #4). Volt and Prime were #1 (1,820) and #3 (1,362). Model S is #2 (est. 1,750).

At half price, the LEAF is essentially selling for what its worth so sales jump is not surprising. they would have sold more if they had them to sell.
 
No surprise that a recent report of a Bolt Freeway trip from San Jose to Pasadena shows just how inefficient, slow, and expensive this trip is is in a Bolt using existing infrastructure.

Chevy Bolt EV: 800-mile trip in 238-mile electric car shows challenges remain

...had to visit Cal Tech in Pasadena, about 340 miles from our home in San Jose, California. In a gasoline car, that’s about a 5-hour drive, mostly down Interstate 5...

I'd need to take the somewhat longer route along Highway 101, because I-5 had no Bolt-compatible fast chargers (using the CCS connector) along our path...

The one-way distance rose to 380 miles, and because we had to pass through small cities, the trip would add at least 45 more minutes of travel time than if I had been driving I-5 in a gasoline car...

...With my little lead foot taking us down the freeway at an average of 80 mph, we got nowhere near the 238-mile rated range. After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range...

Another learning point is that, in general, the EVgo stations seemed to charge at a faster rate than the ChargePoint CCS fast-charging sites.

The EVgo chargers seemed to vary in rate, depending on what charge level the car could accept, while the ChargePoint sites charged at 21.7 kilowatts—well below the Bolt EV's rated capability of 80 kw.

We charged for about an hour and a half while we ate dinner in Ventura. That brought us back up to about 80 percent and got us to our hotel in Pasadena at 9 pm, with about 28 miles left. Hooray! We had made it.

After 12 hours on the road, I was exhausted...

Our trip back took 11.5 hours with all the charging stops. The total charging cost was $88.00.

Comparing this to a 5-hour trip in a gasoline car along Interstate 5 (or 6 hours via Highway 101), it becomes hard to justify the extra time...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109117_chevy-bolt-ev-800-mile-trip-in-238-mile-electric-car-shows-challenges-remain


edatoakrun said:
...the Ioniq's superior efficiency and (perhaps) higher charge rate as shown above means it should actually be a fairly close contest between it and a Bolt on a long freeway trip, despite the Bolt having more than twice the Ioniq's available battery capacity.

For example, I would expect an Ioniq driven from L.A to S.F (at the unofficial speed limit) could get there within ~ a half-hour of the time it took for a Bolt, and could even pass the bolt on a longer trip.

Both BEVs would be much slower than any ICEVs on any long trip, of course.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21136&start=100
 
edatoakrun said:
No surprise that a recent report of a Bolt Freeway trip from San Jose to Pasadena shows just how inefficient, slow, and expensive this trip is is in a Bolt using existing infrastructure.

As I remarked elsewhere, a hotel with charging stations would have made this trip a lot more pleasant.

Overnight L2 is a wonder.
 
edatoakrun said:
No surprise that a recent report of a Bolt Freeway trip from San Jose to Pasadena shows just how inefficient, slow, and expensive this trip is is in a Bolt using existing infrastructure.

Chevy Bolt EV: 800-mile trip in 238-mile electric car shows challenges remain

...had to visit Cal Tech in Pasadena, about 340 miles from our home in San Jose, California. In a gasoline car, that’s about a 5-hour drive, mostly down Interstate 5...

I'd need to take the somewhat longer route along Highway 101, because I-5 had no Bolt-compatible fast chargers (using the CCS connector) along our path...

The one-way distance rose to 380 miles, and because we had to pass through small cities, the trip would add at least 45 more minutes of travel time than if I had been driving I-5 in a gasoline car...

...With my little lead foot taking us down the freeway at an average of 80 mph, we got nowhere near the 238-mile rated range. After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range...

Another learning point is that, in general, the EVgo stations seemed to charge at a faster rate than the ChargePoint CCS fast-charging sites.

The EVgo chargers seemed to vary in rate, depending on what charge level the car could accept, while the ChargePoint sites charged at 21.7 kilowatts—well below the Bolt EV's rated capability of 80 kw.

We charged for about an hour and a half while we ate dinner in Ventura. That brought us back up to about 80 percent and got us to our hotel in Pasadena at 9 pm, with about 28 miles left. Hooray! We had made it.

After 12 hours on the road, I was exhausted...

Our trip back took 11.5 hours with all the charging stops. The total charging cost was $88.00.

Comparing this to a 5-hour trip in a gasoline car along Interstate 5 (or 6 hours via Highway 101), it becomes hard to justify the extra time...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109117_chevy-bolt-ev-800-mile-trip-in-238-mile-electric-car-shows-challenges-remain


edatoakrun said:
...the Ioniq's superior efficiency and (perhaps) higher charge rate as shown above means it should actually be a fairly close contest between it and a Bolt on a long freeway trip, despite the Bolt having more than twice the Ioniq's available battery capacity.

For example, I would expect an Ioniq driven from L.A to S.F (at the unofficial speed limit) could get there within ~ a half-hour of the time it took for a Bolt, and could even pass the bolt on a longer trip.

Both BEVs would be much slower than any ICEVs on any long trip, of course.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21136&start=100

Full Context:

We left at 9 am with a full charge, headed for a 1 pm appointment at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. Based on my previous driving style, the Bolt EV told us we had 185 miles of range.

- Multiple trip visits -

As it turned out, we ended up stopping in both King City and Paso Robles for quick top-ups and bathroom breaks.

With my little lead foot taking us down the freeway at an average of 80 mph, we got nowhere near the 238-mile rated range. After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range.

To be expected from anyone with basic BEV knowledge, i.e. driving @ 80!

We also stopped at the Chevy dealer in San Luis Obispo, with 24 miles left, because my cellphone wasn’t charging properly on the car’s USB ports

- More wasted time -

After charging for a total of just under 7 hours, we seemed to have about an 80-percent charge with an estimated range of 142 miles—and it was time to tackle our drive home, reversing the route we had taken to get down to Southern California.

- At Psadena -

This time, we passed Ventura and made it to La Cumber Plaza in Santa Barbara a little after 5 pm (right before Highway 154 would take us over the high pass). We charged at an EVgo fast charger for 1 hour, giving us about 170 miles. I definitely got more screams about using up our charge as we went over the pass.
Giving up on San Luis Obispo, we drove on to Paso Robles and stopped at a ChargePoint at Cool Hand Luke’s, a local steakhouse. We pulled in sometime after 9:30 pm. We had already eaten so we watched a movie knowing we needed about 2 hours worth of charge to get us to our next stop.

- Stupid route planning to take 154 (over mountains) with a BEV because of a about 15 mile short bypass of SB -

We did end up stopping for yet another top off in King City, but that was more for a bathroom break than a charge. We put a 10-minute charge in King City and that got us to Gilroy with 35 miles left. But it was 34 miles to home so we weren’t going to push it. We did our last half-hour charge in Gilroy at an EVgo station, and finally arrived home in San Jose at 2:45 am with 34 miles left on the car’s dashboard display.
Our trip back took 11.5 hours with all the charging stops. The total charging cost was $88.00.

Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.
 
The only way to go farther on a charge - is to s l o o o o w down. Driving 80MPH is reckless abandonment of any hope of going 380 miles on just one charge.
 
lorenfb said:
Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.

Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.

As WetEV said, her biggest mistake was not booking a hotel with an L2 charger. If she had, she would have started the return trip with a full charge. What a difference that would have made!
 
GetOffYourGas said:
As WetEV said, her biggest mistake was not booking a hotel with an L2 charger.

Thanks. For example, she might have stayed at one of these,

http://www.comfortinnnearoldtownpasadena.com/

Has two ChargePoint stations in the parking lot.

or

http://www3.hilton.com/en/hotels/califo ... index.html

Has two Clipper Creek 30A, must use valet parking, an extra $2 plus tip.


There are more, not all hotels have them. Call them, if a hotel has 10 empty rooms and 10 daily calls of "do you have electric car charging"? followed by "no", then the management of the hotel might figure out that five or so L2 stations might reduce the vacancy rate...
 
WetEV said:
There are more, not all hotels have them. Call them, if a hotel has 10 empty rooms and 10 daily calls of "do you have electric car charging"? followed by "no", then the management of the hotel might figure out that five or so L2 stations might reduce the vacancy rate...

This is something I need to get better about. I normally just rely on PlugShare. So technically, I pretty well know whether they have one or not. But without making a phone call, they don't know that they lost my business because of it. Thanks for the reminder.
 
A local dealer got hold of some Bolts from a CA dealer (he was complaining he had to get a bunch of slow moving vehicles too as part of the deal). All with GM blessing - so yes - they are overstocked in CA.

It felt shockingly small inside compared to Leaf - don't know whether its just a unfamiliarity thing. The seat was ok (but then, I'm thin). Charge was low - so couldn't really go far or quick. but it drives adequately. I knew it would be a econobox - but it was still shocking how barebones - hard plasticky it is. You'd feel practically robbed paying $40k/>$500 a month lease for this.

Currently GM hasn't announced a lease program for WA - and buying the car knowing I want to get rid off this whenever I get Model 3 would be not prudent. Infact if the lease continues to be close to $500 (zero down) I expect to spend about double of what I'd spend on a new Leaf in the next 18 months. I find it difficult to justify the expense.

Strangely, now I'm wondering whether to get a Volt as a stop gap.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
lorenfb said:
Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.

Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.

Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!
 
evnow said:
A local dealer got hold of some Bolts from a CA dealer (he was complaining he had to get a bunch of slow moving vehicles too as part of the deal). All with GM blessing - so yes - they are overstocked in CA.

It felt shockingly small inside compared to Leaf - don't know whether its just a unfamiliarity thing. The seat was ok (but then, I'm thin). Charge was low - so couldn't really go far or quick. but it drives adequately. I knew it would be a econobox - but it was still shocking how barebones - hard plasticky it is. You'd feel practically robbed paying $40k/>$500 a month lease for this.

Currently GM hasn't announced a lease program for WA - and buying the car knowing I want to get rid off this whenever I get Model 3 would be not prudent. Infact if the lease continues to be close to $500 (zero down) I expect to spend about double of what I'd spend on a new Leaf in the next 18 months. I find it difficult to justify the expense.

Strangely, now I'm wondering whether to get a Volt as a stop gap.

That's how we felt about the Bolt we tried before we bought the 2016 SV leftover. Tacky, noisy, cramped and definetly unrefined. It also didn't have NaV or quick charge. Our SV is appointed nicer than our neighbours Cadillac other than the power seats he has. If the 2018 comes out with what that article says and it is anywhere near the same price they will trounce the bolt. Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.
 
webeleafowners said:
Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.
If history repeats itself - Leaf 2 S will be 30 kWh, with SV/SL being 60 kWh. It is possible we'll get a 45kWh SV and a 60 kWh SL. On the whole expecting Leaf 2 to be cheaper than Bolt (and Model 3) for equal trims. Difficult to see Bolt selling better than Leaf 2 if that is the case.
 
evnow said:
webeleafowners said:
Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.
If history repeats itself - Leaf 2 S will be 30 kWh, with SV/SL being 60 kWh. It is possible we'll get a 45kWh SV and a 60 kWh SL. On the whole expecting Leaf 2 to be cheaper than Bolt (and Model 3) for equal trims. Difficult to see Bolt selling better than Leaf 2 if that is the case.

Totally agree. I hope you are right on the 45 KW option. You never know. We didn't want leather seats this time but the next car will be prep for retirement. If we decide that is the case we might reconsider the bigger battery. Reality is for us it is a 2020 purchase, maybe 2021 for my 60th birthday. :). Maybe we'll go all out for the SL. Who knows what the other MFG offerings will be by then but we are not interested in any of the crossover EV's and there is no Tesla facility near us for service. We want a 5 passenger sedan, not to big so there is room to move in the garage. Hopefully our smart ED convertible will still be serving us well at that time but reality is once we are retired we are going to be a one car family.
 
lorenfb said:
GetOffYourGas said:
lorenfb said:
Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.
Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.
Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!
On the contrary, they need to reach the mainstream media so we don't have a large number of quickly disillusioned mainstream consumers bitching about BEVs. GetOffYourGas is exactly right - if GM and the other BEV companies hope to expand beyond the early adopter base that frequents sites like this one, then this is exactly the sort of thing their customers will be dealing with, and it's not as if they're likely to get good info from dealership personnel.

I was somewhat impressed that she picked up on the charging speed difference between the BMW-built and Chargepoint-branded QCs and the eVgos so quickly, given that she obviously isn't a devotee of EV forums. Sure, we could all have told her she should have expected 24 kW from them instead of 50kW, but she's at least aware that she needs an 80kW+ QC to get full rate, which is more than the typical mainstream buyer would know.

Although it's not certain, she also seems to be unaware of Plugshare, and is only used to using Chargepoint's website to look for charging.

As to the idea that speeding will get her there in less time, that's ICE conditioning for you, but just how you can sell "Drive slower so you get there faster" to the masses without causing them all to shrug and say "Why bother" remains an issue that no BEV company has yet figured out a solution to. Until faster QCs eliminate this ala Tesla, it will remain a big problem. She's already come to the most important conclusion, which is that the Bolt's far better suited as a 'no worries' daily driver for her than it is for beyond max. range road trips. The fact that she could have done the drive in say 7-8 hours instead of 5-6 if she had more of the knowledge available here, and was willing to act accordingly, is of minor importance.
 
Fast charging is one more thing that car companies need to hear about via their focus-group driven design approach. I took part in a focus group for the Bolt a while back and you could tell from the questions we were given that their primary concern was on the size of the pack and price (which GM did an admirable job with). The questions about charging were all about home charging rates from 240V EVSEs etc.

This author could have purchased a used Model S for the same price and made the trip in 6 hours with a moderately "lead foot" for free.
I made that trip yesterday (Pasadena to Santa Cruz; 338 miles ) in that time, including stopping for dinner. But then, she wouldn't have a story.
 
GRA said:
...As to the idea that speeding will get her there in less time, that's ICE conditioning for you, but just how you can sell "Drive slower so you get there faster" to the masses...
Speeding (~80 mph on the freeway, as was the case here) will get her there in less time in any BEV with DC charge capability, and with DC charge sites at appropriate locations.

Several recent commentators seem not to understand this.

sparky said:
...This author could have purchased a used Model S for the same price and made the trip in 6 hours with a moderately "lead foot" for free.
I made that trip yesterday (Pasadena to Santa Cruz; 338 miles ) in that time, including stopping for dinner. But then, she wouldn't have a story.
Future total cost of ownership per mile is likely to be much higher for the Tesla than for the Bolt, even if you buy a used beater Model S.

Once there are more ~50 kW DC sites on I-5, a Bolt will take only a few hours more to make a San-Francisco to LA trip than an ICEV.

But almost any ICEV will be able to make the trip faster than any BEV, even a ~$150,000 Tesla.
 
GRA said:
lorenfb said:
GetOffYourGas said:
Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.
Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!
On the contrary, they need to reach the mainstream media so we don't have a large number of quickly disillusioned mainstream consumers bitching about BEVs.

Really? You obviously missed the point, i.e. articles like that dissuade potential BEV buyers from further
consideration of a BEV, e.g. "I know now that a BEV is NOT for our family after seeing that NBC report on the
Bolt travel experience in CA". I assure you, if I were to refer friends of mine who have shown some very slight
interest in a BEV to that article, they would laugh and say "I can't believe you bought a BEV and still drive one!".

GRA said:
GetOffYourGas is exactly right - if GM and the other BEV companies hope to expand beyond the early adopter base that frequents sites like this one, then this is exactly the sort of thing their customers will be dealing with, and it's not as if they're likely to get good info from dealership personnel.

On the contrary, it's the responsibility of the automotive industry to educate potential BEV buyers and avoid articles
like that from reaching the mainstream, and not hope that the market will "eventually sort itself out" and the
market will eventually learn the "true value of a BEV ownership" over time without proper marketing. That
type of article is not what the BEV market needs! Hopefully, GM will not incur another monthly decline in Bolt
sales this March.

Bottom Line: Mary Barra (GM CEO) needs to do some marketing "re-education" in the Bolt Product Marketing Group.
 
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