Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
GRA said:
BEVs dropped a couple of % compared to last month, as the Bolt's sales slumped. The LEAF outsold it by 1,037 to 952.
This is interesting. I wonder how much of this is driven by limited availability of the Bolt and large discounts on remaining 2016 Leafs? And how much is driven by the difference in OTD price between a 2017 Leaf S30 and a Bolt?
 
Dooglas said:
GRA said:
BEVs dropped a couple of % compared to last month, as the Bolt's sales slumped. The LEAF outsold it by 1,037 to 952.
This is interesting. I wonder how much of this is driven by limited availability of the Bolt and large discounts on remaining 2016 Leafs? And how much is driven by the difference in OTD price between a 2017 Leaf S30 and a Bolt?
Per IEVS the Bolt's inventory is higher than the LEAF's, so it must be one of the others:
Definitely the ‘surprise’ of the month was that the 75-month-old Nissan LEAF outsold the brand new Chevrolet Bolt EV – despite the [word missing, but the context says it should be 'Bolt'] having more in-stock inventory on hand for the month. The world has truly gone mad. . . .

Unfortunately, and despite added 3 more states of availability in February (Massachusetts, Maryland and Virginia joined California and Oregon), Bolt EV sales fell to 952 moved during the month.

And the sales slump didn’t have anything to do with inventory, as it steadily grew over the course of the month, ending several hundred units higher than the month prior and rapidly closing in on the 2,000 unit mark. . . .
http://insideevs.com/february-2017-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
 
Dooglas said:
GRA said:
BEVs dropped a couple of % compared to last month, as the Bolt's sales slumped. The LEAF outsold it by 1,037 to 952.
This is interesting. I wonder how much of this is driven by limited availability of the Bolt and large discounts on remaining 2016 Leafs? And how much is driven by the difference in OTD price between a 2017 Leaf S30 and a Bolt?


its primarily driven by Chevy's BS lease rates (I know close to 10 people who were all ready to get a Bolt but have balked) not passing the fed credit on making the "about $30,000 EV" nearly $40,000....


As far as supply? They are flooded in the markets they are available in and that market is expanding. FOM; sales are simply slow...
 
As of today, C.C reports ~1613 Bolts FS in the USA and 1366 LEAFs:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?zc=94555&rd=99999&prMx=60000&stkTypId=28880&mdId=36274172&mkId=20053&sf1Nm=location&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?zc=94555&rd=99999&stkTypId=28880&mdId=35968&mkId=20077&sf1Nm=location&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=UTILITY
 
Dooglas said:
This is interesting. I wonder how much of this is driven by limited availability of the Bolt and large discounts on remaining 2016 Leafs? And how much is driven by the difference in OTD price between a 2017 Leaf S30 and a Bolt?
There is a dealer with large Bolt inventory in CA advertising $3k off MSRP. So, I'd say lack of demand due to high price.
 
They'll learn sooner or later... I would never have leased the Volt if the deals were the same as what they are currently doing on the Bolt!
On the Volt, I got a large amount off of MSRP, a very low money factor, and almost the entire $7, 500 tax credit... With $3,000 down, my payments are 276 a month (plus tax) for a Premier with everything and 15,500 miles a year...

evnow said:
There is a dealer with large Bolt inventory in CA advertising $3k off MSRP. So, I'd say lack of demand due to high price.
 
Yes sure it's partly the price but what stopped me cold on the volt was unreliability their electric information system (computer ) causing problems, and the dealers are not competent enough to get them back on the road in a timely fashion. Leaf has a much better reliability rating.
 
Maybe I am just lucky but in 20,000 miles, my Volt has been flawless... And it is so much a nicer and better driving car than the Leaf!

orioniggies said:
Yes sure it's partly the price but what stopped me cold on the volt was unreliability their electric information system (computer ) causing problems, and the dealers are not competent enough to get them back on the road in a timely fashion. Leaf has a much better reliability rating.
 
orioniggies said:
Yes sure it's partly the price but what stopped me cold on the volt was unreliability their electric information system (computer ) causing problems, and the dealers are not competent enough to get them back on the road in a timely fashion. Leaf has a much better reliability rating.

What overall system design has a higher probability of failure?

VoltPT_zps4faa4109.jpg


LeafPT_zpsd5c47895.jpg
 
lorenfb said:
orioniggies said:
Yes sure it's partly the price but what stopped me cold on the volt was unreliability their electric information system (computer ) causing problems, and the dealers are not competent enough to get them back on the road in a timely fashion. Leaf has a much better reliability rating.

What overall system design has a higher probability of failure?

VoltPT_zps4faa4109.jpg


LeafPT_zpsd5c47895.jpg

The 24kw battery (oddly)
 
rmay635703 said:
lorenfb said:
orioniggies said:
Yes sure it's partly the price but what stopped me cold on the volt was unreliability their electric information system (computer ) causing problems, and the dealers are not competent enough to get them back on the road in a timely fashion. Leaf has a much better reliability rating.

What overall system design has a higher probability of failure?

VoltPT_zps4faa4109.jpg


LeafPT_zpsd5c47895.jpg

The 24kw battery (oddly)

Actually, what occurs with the Leaf's battery and with ALL BEV batteries is a degradation in its output energy over time,
with the early (2011/12) Leaf batteries having greater degradation and not a catastrophic failure. The Volt's system
has a higher probability of a failure requiring a tow or a greater service frequency, given the number of system elements
and the inclusion of an ICE. Since the Volt is a hybrid, it's reliability should be on par with most all hybrids, which
would have a higher probability of a failure than a less complex ICEV.
 
Since the Volt is a hybrid, it's reliability should be on par with most all hybrids, which
would have a higher probability of a failure than a less complex ICEV.

https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/1579

Nuff said
 
O.K., and now for the reality of driving a Volt hybrid:

Periodic:

Spark Plugs - 50K, Oil Change - 10K , Air Filler - 25K, Trans Service - 25K
O2 Sensors - 100K, Emission Tests - bi-annual, Coolant Changes - 50K, Belts - 50K

Random:

Water Pump, Valve Cover Gasket , Oil Pan Gasket, Secondary Air Pump (emissions),
Trans Valve Body Gasket, Radiator, CAT converter, Muffler, Vacuum Hoses, Trans Clutches
Misc. ICE Oil Leaks (e.g. front/rear crank seals, timing cover), fuel injectors, COP (coil-on-plug) ignitors

And the associated labor costs, usually 1 - 1.5X the parts costs. As significant for many, the allotted time
for dealer scheduling/appointments
 
lorenfb said:
O.K., and now for the reality of driving a Volt hybrid:

Periodic:

Spark Plugs - 50K, Oil Change - 10K , Air Filler - 25K, Trans Service - 25K
O2 Sensors - 100K, Emission Tests - bi-annual, Coolant Changes - 50K, Belts - 50K

Random:

Water Pump, Valve Cover Gasket , Oil Pan Gasket, Secondary Air Pump (emissions),
Trans Valve Body Gasket, Radiator, CAT converter, Muffler, Vacuum Hoses, Trans Clutches
Misc. ICE Oil Leaks (e.g. front/rear crank seals, timing cover), fuel injectors, COP (coil-on-plug) ignitors

And the associated labor costs, usually 1 - 1.5X the parts costs. As significant for many, the allotted time
for dealer scheduling/appointments

Right and I bet your the guy that pays for the annual oil change and battery test on your leaf.

Reality is plugs by the book at 100k, sparkie got plugs at 300k

Belts, Volt has no belts

Transmission? Nope, fluid goes past 150k in the planetary

Radiator fluids 150k by the book

By the book my volt is on its 2nd oil change at 40,000 miles and still a year to go.

Emission checks, none here but a 100 miles south emissions checks start at year 6. (Our state has the bone headed belief they can emissions check a pure EV as well so no joy either way)

So yes the Volt could require maintenance but generally beyond biannual filters and oil changes most Volt drivers encounter zilch until after 200k

Those that do complain on gen 1 are usually having a sticking charge door, trouble connecting infotainment or tire blow outs.
 
March's U.S. sales total for sub-$40k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 3,750, 37.5% (9 types: LEAF; 500e; e-Golf; Spark EV; Soul EV; Focus Electric; Smart ED; Bolt; iMiev).
PHEV, 6,193, 62.5% (7 types: Volt; Fusion Energi; C-Max Energi; A3 E-tron; Sonata PHEV; Prius Prime; Optima PHV)
Total 9,943.

2% increase/decrease for BEVs/PHEVs compared to last month. Seems to be mainly due to booming LEAF sales (1,418) and the surprise of the month, the updated FFE with 407, its all-time high by well over 100. This is probably due to the backlog of people waiting for the bigger battery and CCS, which arrived last month. We'll see if the FFE can sustain sales at this level. Volt and Prius Prime remain #1 & #2 in sub-$40k PEV sales. Meanwhile the Spark and iMiEV eked out 3 sales each.

When describing sub-$40k PEVs as 'affordable', I've always put that in single quotes. However, there are now a fair number of PEVs available for base MSRPs below $30k with more to come, which I consider affordable without the single quotes, so I'm going to list them separately as well. Without further ado:

March's U.S. sales total for sub-$30k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 755, 24.9% (4 types: Focus Electric; eGolf; Smart ED; iMiEV)
PHEV, 2,280, 75.1% (2 types: Prius Prime; C-Max Energi)
Total, 3,035

The Ionic BEV's due to arrive in April and will join this group, not sure about when the PHEV arrives or whether its price will be low enough to qualify.
 
April's U.S. sales total for semi-affordable sub-$40k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 3,415, 36.5% (10 types: LEAF; 500e; e-Golf; Spark EV; Soul EV; Focus Electric; Smart ED; Bolt; iMiev; Ionic BEV [debuts with 19]).
PHEV, 5,947, 63.5% (7 types: Volt; Fusion Energi; C-Max Energi; A3 E-tron; Sonata PHEV; Prius Prime; Optima PHV)
Total 9,362.

1% decrease/increase for BEVs/PHEVs compared to last month. Prius Prime just beats out the Volt for the first time, 1,819 vs. 1,807. Focus EV drops back to more typical level, 120. The Spark and iMiev contributed 1 and 2 sales each.

When describing sub-$40k PEVs as 'affordable', I've always put that in single quotes. However, there are now a fair number of PEVs available for base MSRPs below $30k with more to come, which I consider affordable without the single quotes, so I'm going to list them separately as well. Without further ado:

April's U.S. sales total for affordable, sub-$30k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 452, 15.0% (6 types: Focus Electric; eGolf; Smart ED; iMiev; Spark EV*; Ioniq BEV)
PHEV, 2,568, 85.0% (2 types: Prius Prime; C-Max Energi)
Total, 3,020

9.9% decrease/increase from last month for BEV/PHEVs respectively. Prime's #1 by a mile, the C-Max #2 with 749. e-Golf is the #1 BEV with 307, the FFE #2 with 120 and the Ionic #3 with 19, then the Smart/iMiEV/Spark @ 3/2/1.

[Edit: corrected math to reflect correct <$30k decrease/increase %]
 
GRA said:
April's U.S. sales total for semi-affordable sub-$40k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 3,415, 36.5% (10 types: LEAF; 500e; e-Golf; Spark EV; Soul EV; Focus Electric; Smart ED; Bolt; iMiev; Ionic BEV [debuts with 19]).
PHEV, 5,947, 63.5% (7 types: Volt; Fusion Energi; C-Max Energi; A3 E-tron; Sonata PHEV; Prius Prime; Optima PHV)
Total 9,362.

1% decrease/increase for BEVs/PHEVs compared to last month. Prius Prime just beats out the Volt for the first time, 1,819 vs. 1,807. Focus EV drops back to more typical level, 120. The Spark and iMiev contributed 1 and 2 sales each.

When describing sub-$40k PEVs as 'affordable', I've always put that in single quotes. However, there are now a fair number of PEVs available for base MSRPs below $30k with more to come, which I consider affordable without the single quotes, so I'm going to list them separately as well. Without further ado:

April's U.S. sales total for affordable, sub-$30k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 452, 15.0% (6 types: Focus Electric; eGolf; Smart ED; iMiev; Spark EV*; Ioniq BEV)
PHEV, 2,568, 85.0% (2 types: Prius Prime; C-Max Energi)
Total, 3,020

10.1% decrease/increase from last month for BEV/PHEVs respectively. Prime's #1 by a mile, the C-Max #2 with 749. e-Golf is the #1 BEV with 307, the FFE #2 with 120 and the Ionic #3 with 19, then the Smart/iMiEV/Spark @ 3/2/1.

And I, for one, appreciate the single quotes on 'affordable'. A high $30K to low $40K car is not 'affordable' in my world and it's the reason why I have been shying away from these cars (among other reasons). My intention is to try the EV world for my next vehicle, but the costs are keeping me away unless I buy used. I have been shying away from used, unless there is a remaining warranty, because of the noted problems on the Leaf and the likely high costs of repairs/replacement on other EV cars or the Volt. I've driven the Volt and the Leaf and found the Volt to be a much nicer car. However, I sort of figure if I am going to do it, I may as well go 100% electric. The Leaf really did not push my buttons in the least and did not feel or look like a mid $30K car, but the 2018 may be promising as is the new Bolt. However, given the prices of both vehicles, it is keeping me out of the market (I'm a born again college student in my 40's with little money). I figure by time I graduate and with my credit score getting better by the month, I may be in a position to try a lease on one of these cars within the next year or so, assuming I am able to find a real job relatively quickly. If I cannot find a lease for $275 or less a month, no way could I touch any of these cars. I know I've seen some lease deals advertised less than that, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 
tattoogunman said:
GRA said:
When describing sub-$40k PEVs as 'affordable', I've always put that in single quotes. However, there are now a fair number of PEVs available for base MSRPs below $30k with more to come, which I consider affordable without the single quotes, so I'm going to list them separately as well. Without further ado: <snip>
And I, for one, appreciate the single quotes on 'affordable'. A high $30K to low $40K car is not 'affordable' in my world and it's the reason why I have been shying away from these cars (among other reasons). My intention is to try the EV world for my next vehicle, but the costs are keeping me away unless I buy used. I have been shying away from used, unless there is a remaining warranty, because of the noted problems on the Leaf and the likely high costs of repairs/replacement on other EV cars or the Volt. I've driven the Volt and the Leaf and found the Volt to be a much nicer car. However, I sort of figure if I am going to do it, I may as well go 100% electric. The Leaf really did not push my buttons in the least and did not feel or look like a mid $30K car, but the 2018 may be promising as is the new Bolt. However, given the prices of both vehicles, it is keeping me out of the market (I'm a born again college student in my 40's with little money). I figure by time I graduate and with my credit score getting better by the month, I may be in a position to try a lease on one of these cars within the next year or so, assuming I am able to find a real job relatively quickly. If I cannot find a lease for $275 or less a month, no way could I touch any of these cars. I know I've seen some lease deals advertised less than that, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Glad you find it useful. Many of the early adopters are in a very different income demographic than the average person, so I do think it sometimes skews their perception of whether or not a PEV makes sense for someone else, as well as their mass market appeal.
 
I find it "funny" that you trot out a "sub-$30K" category now that you can show PHEVs winning in that price range. You made no mention of that category for the past few years when it was dominated by BEVs.

But that's par for the course for someone who comes to a BEV forum daily to bash BEVs and promote all more-polluting alternatives.

Meanwhile, in the US as well as worldwide, BEVs are outselling PHEVs.
 
Back
Top