LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

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LeftieBiker said:
60 kWh, but with .2 Cd, so ~300 mile EPA, <6 sec 0-60, lots of power, all for less than $35k before credits (if any), oh, and Tesla SC access. Heck the port hatch is big enough to cover CHAdeMO, CCS, and Tesla ports. An onboard toaster and coffee maker and should also come in a van model, with an expandable roof and seats that convert into a double bed. Also vehicle to home capability to run the house in an outage. And a sunroof.

Oh, come on. A sunroof?!?

Yes! And a hot tub, with a wine fridge, LCD TV, and something that hasn't been invented yet.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Yes! And a hot tub, with a wine fridge, LCD TV, and something that hasn't been invented yet.

Nissan is working on a HTTM (hot tub time machine) to bring the future back to today! :cool: The fridge and TV are actually available in Japan today.
 
42kWh and 60kWh battery options

150 mi and 240 mi range options

at least a 100,000 mi / 8 year, 70% battery capacity warranty

Better styling - at least in the 3/4 panels and rear end.

To keep me as a customer, I want at least the 42kWh battery, the capacity warranty, and a better exterior design. (And I wouldn't mind a sunroof. Did ya see that is an option on the Ioniq??)
 
If Leaf 2 was the ESFLOW it would probably keep me as a customer. I'm bored with current and immediate future EV offerings below 40k. I did my time in a Leaf, give me something I can really enjoy now.
 
My expectations (i.e. what I expect Nissan to deliver, based on previous statements/hints/leaks/etc):

~40kWh / ~60kWh battery options
More mainstream styling
Same Tall Hatchback / Crossover form factor (maybe even larger than today's Leaf)
~100kW motor
ProPilot (I suspect Nissan will try to sell this as the main differentiator between it and the Bolt, not performance or range)
NO TMS
Terrible built-in Nav
Soon-to-be-obsolete-again 3G Modem
Industry-lagging 6.0kW charger
CHAdeMO QC
Price ranging $35k-43k

What it would take for me to remain a Nissan customer:
200+ miles EPA range
8yr / 100k mile >= 70% capacity warranty
120+kW motor
Fun to drive (highly subjective, of course. The current Leaf is a bit too cushy for my taste)
Competitive with other options (Bolt, Model 3, etc)

Clearly my minimum bar for Nissan is somewhat low. But that just means I'll consider the next Leaf. I will absolutely be cross-shopping it with the Bolt and Model 3. Heck, the VW IDS may be available by the time I'm looking to replace my 2012 Leaf.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Why the long delay? Did they screw something up and maybe still haven't solved it? Last minute changes to compete? Damn frustrating.

well what is your opinion of long? The 2018 had been slated for release anywhere from late Q2 to mid Q3 so in reality, only a few months off...


My predictions;

range options.
lower entry price point less than current S trim pricing
Charge speed options
larger passenger/cargo areas

Overall result; Top price/range EV option. 30 kwh stays but expect something in 40's to be the sweet spot
 
If they don't come with a 200+ mile battery, why bother...........
 
KK6PD said:
If they don't come with a 200+ mile battery, why bother...........

Can you talk a little bit more about why a 200+ battery is so important, and not the option of a 150 mile or a 200+ mile battery?

What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
 
OrientExpress said:
KK6PD said:
If they don't come with a 200+ mile battery, why bother...........

Can you talk a little bit more about why a 200+ battery is so important, and not the option of a 150 mile or a 200+ mile battery?

What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?

Personally - my 2015 LEAF gives me maybe 35-45 miles of total range in the winter, on cold (0 degrees F), snowy days when using the heater modestly. I'm afraid to put snow tires on my LEAF for fear of losing even more range. I need all the battery I can get just to make this car work year around. I'm sure others are in the same boat.
 
ampitupco said:
Personally - my 2015 LEAF gives me maybe 35-45 miles of total range in the winter, on cold (0 degrees F), snowy days when using the heater modestly. I'm afraid to put snow tires on my LEAF for fear of losing even more range. I need all the battery I can get just to make this car work year around. I'm sure others are in the same boat.

I take it then in your situation, you are willing to spend an additional $5~6K for the extra 50 miles of range?
 
OrientExpress said:
What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.
 
evnow said:
OrientExpress said:
What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.

Agreed. We need more options. I doubt I'll buy another BEV with less than 200-mile range. But that's because I want it to be more than just a commuter. If others are happy with a BEV commuter + a gasser/PHEV/rental/etc for trips, then probably 150 miles is all they will need.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
evnow said:
OrientExpress said:
What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.

Agreed. We need more options. I doubt I'll buy another BEV with less than 200-mile range. But that's because I want it to be more than just a commuter. If others are happy with a BEV commuter + a gasser/PHEV/rental/etc for trips, then probably 150 miles is all they will need.


Exactly. It will depend on where we are in life in 4 years. If we are really just on the retirement cusp we would look for something with a longer range. If not, anything over 100 miles is just kind of a waste. 150 would be nice I suppose and it would take one fast charge out of the only longer trip we take....once per year. But I sure wouldn't be paying more for 200 or 300 or whatever.
 
Does https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/concept-cars/zzoe-concept.html have Nissan gear? If yes, then that:
https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/concept-cars/zzoe-concept.html
 
EVftw said:
Does https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/concept-cars/zzoe-concept.html have Nissan gear? If yes, then that:
https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/concept-cars/zzoe-concept.html

Sounds like a gas free volt 2 motors, cooling system and all
 
something old something new something borrowed something blue

old - the lower pack case from LEAF 1
new - 60kWh of cells (different carbon, different oxides, different dimension etc etc etc)
borrowed - some tech from LG presumably
blue - colour scheme for the background screen

60kWh%20battery_02.jpg


yes its from a year ago, but it shows Nissan philosophy perfectly, its a bit like grandpa's axe, yes the handle is changed, so is the axe head, but its still is grandpa's axe.

New LEAF 2 will really look like a mere facelifted LEAF 1. but, Just that nearly everything will be physically different.

strange how Nissan rolls like that.

That early battery profile does appear that internal leg room should increase for the back occupant, and that the rear roofline needs to stay high.
 
OrientExpress said:
Can you talk a little bit more about why a 200+ battery is so important, and not the option of a 150 mile or a 200+ mile battery?

What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
$36K for 215 mile car. I drive 140 miles round trip most Saturdays with up to 5,000 feet elevation gain and 2-3 people in the car. With 215 mile car I could make the trip even after some capacity loss, use of AC, etc.
 
OrientExpress said:
What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
We seem to forget that a large segment of the population cannot afford a $40,000 vehicle. I think Nissan would provide a great service by pushing down the costs even more. I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL. So , I vote for the 150 mi (48 KWh battery) under $30K, preferably $25K. Put the 200-250 mi (60 KWh battery) in the higher trims, and charge a premium ($35-40K). Heck, there are still lots of people who can't afford a $10K used Leaf, but still want to get off gas. Personally, I'm looking forward to the $15K, 250 mi, version.
 
Reddy said:
OrientExpress said:
What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
We seem to forget that a large segment of the population cannot afford a $40,000 vehicle. I think Nissan would provide a great service by pushing down the costs even more. I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL. So , I vote for the 150 mi (48 KWh battery) under $30K, preferably $25K. Put the 200-250 mi (60 KWh battery) in the higher trims, and charge a premium ($35-40K). Heck, there are still lots of people who can't afford a $10K used Leaf, but still want to get off gas. Personally, I'm looking forward to the $15K, 250 mi, version.

Nissan's incremental cost per kWh will be substantially less than GM's $145 deal from LG. so lets pick a number say $120/kWh
pack stays the same, no cell cooling costs, so a 40kWh version saves Nissan 60-40=20kWh x $120 or about $2400.

The lease residual makes this a no brainer, 60kWh is the default.

Of course if Nissan is cell constrained, then they can sell 3x40 kWh cars instead of 2 x 60kWh cars, so perhaps for the first couple of years of gen 2, there may be 40kWh cars, until cell capacity is ramped up.

Nissan'a 40kWh car is a Renault, American's need not apply.
Renaults may get 40kWh at say a GMish $145 = 42kWh x $145 = $6,090
vs
Nissan 60kWh x $120 = $7,200
only $1,100 difference
 
I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL.

Just going by what I've read here, and seen in searching dealer stock, it appears to me that the best selling Leaf models are, in descending order:

SV with Premium Package

SL with premium Package

S with Charge Package

SV/SL without Premium

S without Charge Package.


Actual sales numbers will be different, because both the S, and the SV without Premium get discounted heavily, and sell, eventually, but the above is based on how fast models sell, not just on how many sell when the price is slashed. It is, admittedly, just an semi-educated guess, but I usually have a feel for these things. Anyway, based on the above, I think that many people want a combination of good price and good features, while many others look for one feature combined with lowest price. The latter would be the S with Charge Package. So if Nissan wants to compete on price, they should build the S with QC and 6.6kw charger, and 30kwh pack. If they want to compete on price and features, a $36k SV with Premium and 60kwh pack should be a winner. If they can sell the loaded SL for much less than the Bolt Premiere, that too should work.
 
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