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LTLFTcomposite said:
Interesting story, lightly seasoned with a grain of salt

“Let them go to Tesla, they will be back in short order,” said an industry source with deep knowledge of Toyota and its customers.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/03/09/the-future-tesla-model-3-buyer-drives-a-toyota-and-thats-a-huge-problem/#7d200eb61680
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Lol. I left Toyota 6 years ago and I have yet to see a reason to go back;)

That said, I agree completely that it will be a big challenge for Tesla to build a much more reliable car with reasonable repair times.

However, Toyota's cavalier attitude about loosing 180,000 customers seems a bit short sighted.
 
Zythryn said:
Lol. I left Toyota 6 years ago and I have yet to see a reason to go back;)

That said, I agree completely that it will be a big challenge for Tesla to build a much more reliable car with reasonable repair times.

However, Toyota's cavalier attitude about loosing 180,000 customers seems a bit short sighted.
Click to expand...
No doubt. We used to have Toyotas but they went downhill and didn't seem to care; there are better choices now IMO. Remains to be seen whether their massive share of the market can shield them from their apathetic view of the world. Funny how many people either don't know (because they were too young) or just don't remember that 10 years ago Nokia was the #1 cell phone to have. Disruption is a mofo, and you're only as great as your latest hit. I wonder if 10 years ago Nokia had a bunch of MBAs running around showing powerpoints about how their customers don't think of other brands or other nonsense... as though none of that could ever change.
 
Was this really the motivation behind yesterday's move up as the article suggests?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-tesla-tsla-stock-211009653.html

If so, it speaks to the popularity of that segment. I've always thought GM's major screwup with the Volt was not making it a compact crossover, if they had they probably wouldn't have been able to build them fast enough. While 400k Model 3 reservation holders is nothing to sneeze at, Tesla may be well aware they need to reach out beyond small sedans in the "affordable" segment where margins are thinnest once the pool of fanbois is depleted.
 
and then they did not even post the picture of the car.

NOT official Tesla, but from an enthusiast site:

tesla_model_y_leada.jpg
 
palmermd said:
and then they did not even post the picture of the car.

NOT official Tesla, but from an enthusiast site:

tesla_model_y_leada.jpg
Click to expand...

Tesla better come up with a design better than a dwarf-model-X-with-plastic-accents, to compete with the other BSUVs that will beat it to the market:

Jaguar I-Pace Driven In London Is A Sign Of Things To Come [95 Images]

After it marked its presence at two auto shows on as many continents, the Jaguar I-Pace has been taken to the streets for the first time.

Proving that it's not only a show car, but also a fully functioning vehicle, it was driven around London, UK, by the brand's design team, and to highlight the event, it was also subjected to a photo shoot.

“Driving the concept on the streets is really important for the design team. It’s very special to put the car outside and in the real-world. You can see the true value of the I-Pace’s dramatic silhouette and powerful proportions when you see it on the road, against other cars. The I-Pace Concept represents the next generation of battery electric vehicle design. For me, the future of motoring has arrived”, said Jaguar's Director of Design, Ian Callum...
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http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/jaguar-i-pace-driven-in-london-is-sign.html

Even in red (not my choice) it looks a generation ahead of the Y concept above.
 
edatoakrun said:
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/jaguar-i-pace-driven-in-london-is-sign.html

Even in red (not my choice) it looks a generation ahead of the Y concept above.
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Wow. I'll take the rendered Model Y over that any day.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
edatoakrun said:
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/jaguar-i-pace-driven-in-london-is-sign.html

Even in red (not my choice) it looks a generation ahead of the Y concept above.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'll take the rendered Model Y over that any day.
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Well, if Tesla ever builds the Y, in three or four years, you may have the chance.
 
edatoakrun said:
GetOffYourGas said:
edatoakrun said:
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/jaguar-i-pace-driven-in-london-is-sign.html

Even in red (not my choice) it looks a generation ahead of the Y concept above.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'll take the rendered Model Y over that any day.
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Well, if Tesla ever builds the Y, in three or four years, you may have the chance.
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Yup. Although, I did say "over the Jaguar". Honestly, I'd rather have a lower sedan (better yet - a sports coupe! Yay right, I'll keep dreaming...).

But I don't have a reservation, and would want the base model. So, honestly, maybe in three or four years I can get the Model 3 that I want.
 
OMG, this is just funny:

"The NEDC (New European Driving Cycle) estimates give it a zero-emission range of more than 500 km (311 miles), but since their measures aren’t exactly accurate, expect less in the real world. However, its autonomy shouldn’t be a concern, as charging the 90 kWh lithium-ion battery up to 80 percent, using the 50kW DC, takes just 90 minutes."

Bolding is mine. How exactly does this "compete" with Tesla? On looks? Gonna be some might disappointed electric Jag-heads once they try and finish their road trips with this thing.

Now coupled with the Supercharger network...THAT is what Elon has wanted all along. 50 kW? 90 minutes? That is a joke for "fast charging". Jaguar better get on the charging network bandwagon and then they may have something.
 
Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money...

Tesla Seeks Up to $1.15 Billion as Musk Hedges Model 3 Risk

Tesla Inc. plans to raise as much as $1.15 billion as the electric-car maker run by Elon Musk seeks the cash it needs to evolve from a niche player to a high-volume automaker.

The proceeds from Tesla’s offering of $250 million in shares and $750 million in convertible debt will be used to strengthen its balance sheet and reduce risks associated with introducing the Model 3 sedan...

On the Edge

“According to our financial plan, no capital needs to be raised for the Model 3, but we get very close to the edge,” the chief executive officer told analysts on the call. Since “that’s probably not the best thing for shareholders,” Musk said, “it probably makes sense to raise capital to reduce the risk.”

Musk, 45, is Tesla’s largest shareholder with a 20.8 percent stake. He’ll participate in the capital raise by purchasing $25 million of common stock, the company said.

The billionaire has borrowed for years from Tesla underwriters including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley. Tesla’s prospectus shows Musk has a $344.4 million loan from Morgan Stanley. He has also borrowed $279.9 million from financial institutions that aren’t involved in the company’s offering and are secured by a portion of Tesla stock, the company said...

Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank AG, Citigroup Inc. and Morgan Stanley are leading the stock offering, Tesla said in its prospectus....
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-15/musk-s-tesla-plans-up-to-1-15-billion-capital-raise-to-cut-risk
 
palmermd said:
and then they did not even post the picture of the car.

NOT official Tesla, but from an enthusiast site:

tesla_model_y_leada.jpg
Click to expand...
One can only hope that Tesla has learned their lesson from the Model X and will concentrate on the Utility aspects of the Model Y CUV, and leave off the gimmicks. For starters, forget anything like the massive taper on the rear roofline of this enthusiast rendering. Sure, it's more aero, but most people buying CUVs place a higher priority on cargo space and loading convenience than aero. If we wanted max. aero we'd buy a sedan.
 
I can't believe anyone here is taking this Jaguar nonsense seriously. Since apparently it isn't obvious let me tell you how this will go down: After a series of delays they will ship a hundred or so units in 2019 or 2020 to US dealers who will put them in the showroom next to all the ICE models, where it will serve as a conversation piece for salespeople and customers who really want nothing to do with it. Look for market penetration that rivals the Panamera plug in hybrid, fewer than 1000 units total before Jaguar and dealers lose interest completely and the whole thing is forgotten.
 
edatoakrun said:
Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money...

Tesla Seeks Up to $1.15 Billion as Musk Hedges Model 3 Risk

Tesla Inc. plans to raise as much as $1.15 billion as the electric-car maker run by Elon Musk seeks the cash it needs to evolve from a niche player to a high-volume automaker.

The proceeds from Tesla’s offering of $250 million in shares and $750 million in convertible debt will be used to strengthen its balance sheet and reduce risks associated with introducing the Model 3 sedan...

On the Edge

“According to our financial plan, no capital needs to be raised for the Model 3, but we get very close to the edge,” the chief executive officer told analysts on the call. Since “that’s probably not the best thing for shareholders,” Musk said, “it probably makes sense to raise capital to reduce the risk.”

Musk, 45, is Tesla’s largest shareholder with a 20.8 percent stake. He’ll participate in the capital raise by purchasing $25 million of common stock, the company said.

The billionaire has borrowed for years from Tesla underwriters including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley. Tesla’s prospectus shows Musk has a $344.4 million loan from Morgan Stanley. He has also borrowed $279.9 million from financial institutions that aren’t involved in the company’s offering and are secured by a portion of Tesla stock, the company said...

Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank AG, Citigroup Inc. and Morgan Stanley are leading the stock offering, Tesla said in its prospectus....
Click to expand...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-15/musk-s-tesla-plans-up-to-1-15-billion-capital-raise-to-cut-risk
Click to expand...

And so far every time that Tesla has borrowed more money they have done it at a time when borrowing will provide them with a path forward and the market sees this and the stock moves upward in the months afterward. I believe this time will be the same since there will be more information about Model 3 in the next months and the stock will continue its upward path. I'm not a buyer right now, but I'm definitely holding all my shares and not looking to sell.
 
edatoakrun said:
Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money...
Click to expand...
I'm so glad they did. We need the Model 3 to happen and if this helps ensure it debuts this year in mass-produced form then it's all good.
They borrowed about another 1.1 billion to shore up the $3.5B cash on hand.
By all appearances, they seem cash efficient (even the Solar City purchase didn't hurt them much).

The $1.1B is not that much considering it's for manufacturing real things in a cap-intensive business.

I don't understand the continued animus here towards Tesla.
Tesla employs over 17,000 people in a venture that I would expect most on this forum appreciate and support.
They are aggressive in this pursuit which I am happy about. Tesla makes mistakes and sometimes their reach exceeds their grasp but seem focused yet agile (a tough combination).

Meanwhile Snapchat snorts up $3.4B out of a $24B IPO for some 400 employees to produce what? /rant
(full disclosure: I own shares of SNAP & TSLA).

[rant](dammit, Notre Dame beat Princeton... there goes my bracket) /rant
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I can't believe anyone here is taking this Jaguar nonsense seriously. Since apparently it isn't obvious let me tell you how this will go down: After a series of delays they will ship a hundred or so units in 2019 or 2020 to US dealers who will put them in the showroom next to all the ICE models, where it will serve as a conversation piece for salespeople and customers who really want nothing to do with it. Look for market penetration that rivals the Panamera plug in hybrid, fewer than 1000 units total before Jaguar and dealers lose interest completely and the whole thing is forgotten.
Click to expand...


(The appearance of Jaguar's I-Pace in production car validation caused Elon Musk considerable heartburn. Seeking Alpha member Simon Mac - a Model S owner and EV believer - brilliantly captured the scene here. Photo source: autocar.co.uk - Jaguar).
Click to expand...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4054638-5-fascinating-features-morgan-stanleys-latest-tesla-note

Did I miss the release of the Model 3 production car validation, i.e. since initial deliveries will begin this July?
 
lorenfb said:
Did I miss the release of the Model 3 production car validation, i.e. since initial deliveries will begin this July?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "release of the Model 3 production car validation" ? I'm not aware of any requirement for a manufacturer to "release" anything before delivering the product.
 
="edatoakrun"]Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money...
Click to expand...
="palmermd"... I'm definitely holding all my shares and not looking to sell.
Click to expand...
And Musk and his bankers are counting on you and the rest of the public shareholders to continue doing just that:

Musk's personal borrowing rises as banks underwrite more Tesla debt

As Tesla Inc. embarks on another effort to raise money, Chairman Elon Musk is also adding to his personal debts.

Tesla disclosed Wednesday as part of its stock and debt offering that Musk increased his own borrowing by more than $100 million, to $624 million. Morgan Stanley, the automaker’s longtime banker, is among the financial institutions that have lent Musk money, secured by Tesla shares.

The enigmatic Tesla CEO gets a nominal salary from the company and much of his wealth is tied up in stock. His borrowings fund an executive lifestyle and let him buy more Tesla shares, which gives him an incentive to perform well as CEO but also could put the company’s stock price at risk.

If Tesla shares were to fall in value, Musk’s lenders could force him to put up more collateral or sell the stock. That could put downward pressure on the price, according to Tesla’s prospectus.

Musk has been borrowing from Tesla’s underwriters for years, especially Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley. Both banks have been lead underwriters on most of the company’s stock and convertible debt offerings...

In addition to being Musk’s largest lender, Morgan Stanley is Tesla’s eighth-largest shareholder, with a 2.4 percent stake. Its Tesla analyst, Adam Jonas, is one of the more bullish researchers of the stock, with a $305 price target.

A Tesla spokesman declined to comment...
Click to expand...
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170316/OEM02/170319872/musks-personal-borrowing-rises-as-banks-underwrite-more-tesla-debt
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
lorenfb said:
Did I miss the release of the Model 3 production car validation, i.e. since initial deliveries will begin this July?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "release of the Model 3 production car validation" ? I'm not aware of any requirement for a manufacturer to "release" anything before delivering the product.
Click to expand...

And where's even an indication that beta tests have completed? Or are deliveries to employees and key investors the beta tests
that will occur in July similar to the Model X "deliveries" in late 2015, i.e. less than a 100?
 

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