Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

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SageBrush said:
IssacZachary said:
I did this with Sagebrush's calculations of 4.5kWh per mile plus 0.5kWh every 300ft of climb. .
Click to expand...
I think I was the first to flip this number :D
Should be 4.5 miles per kWh

OP may want to visit your thread to get a handle on the calcs. The change in elevation portion may not be intuitive, and is NET change.
Click to expand...
Oops! Sorry! I meant 4.5 miles per kWh. :oops:
 
offtosleep said:
As long as the SOH shows 12 bars, does it really matter what year I get?
Click to expand...
The first bar does not drop off until ~ 15% of battery capacity is gone. That is in the range of 12 - 15 miles per full charge that two cars with the same 12 bars can differ one from the other.

This matters even more if you are trying to extend battery life by keeping the SoC between 20 and 80%.
A new car would have 60% of new usable, while the car about to drop a bar would have 45% of new capacity. The healthier car would have 33% more range.
 
offtosleep said:
SageBrush said:
IssacZachary said:
I did this with Sagebrush's calculations of 4.5kWh per mile plus 0.5kWh every 300ft of climb. .
Click to expand...
I think I was the first to flip this number :D
Should be 4.5 miles per kWh

OP may want to visit your thread to get a handle on the calcs. The change in elevation portion may not be intuitive, and is NET change.
Click to expand...


That's where I'm confused. The calculations are NOT intuitive since I'm new to this stuff.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with miles per gallon? It's kind of similar. A gallon of gasoline contains over 33kWh of energy. So the 24kWh battery is less than a gallon of gasoline. Theoretically, if you go, let's say, 4 miles per kWh, and your battery has 24kWh, you should be able to go 4 x 24 = 96 miles on a full charge. If you are getting 3 miles per kWh then you can only go 3 x 24 = 72 miles on a full charge.

But here's the catch. You can never get the full 24kWh from your Leaf. Usually a good new battery will be limited to 21kWh. And as it degrades you'll get less and less. So if you still have 20kWh available then 4 miles per kWH = 80 miles range off of a full charge. 5 miles per kWh would be 100 miles off of a full charge.

Supposedly if you drive at exactly 50mph you use 4.5 miles per kWh, or 90 miles, per charge. If you drive faster that will be less. If you drive slower it will be more.
 
offtosleep said:
Do the 2015 S models still have resistance heaters?
Click to expand...
Yes. And the slower level 2 chargers as well unless they have the charger package.

Actually all Leafs have resistance heaters. But the 2013 and newer SL's and SV's also have the heat pump heaters. The heat pump heater works at temperatures above 0*F. At colder temps all Leafs use the resistance heater.
 
Supposedly if you drive at exactly 50mph you use 4.5 miles per kWh, or 90 miles, per charge. If you drive faster that will be less. If you drive slower it will be more.
Click to expand...

Tire pressure, wind resistance, and other factors will affect the number. It seems high to me. Also, while the heat pump is still operating down to about 5F, it doesn't do much good below 15F, compared to the resistance-only heater in the S. In frigid temps, all newer Leafs get about the same range per KWH.
 
You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Sounds like I should be looking for a 2014-2015 SV or SL or a 2016 if I can find one. These things are hard to hunt down because I'm looking for such a specific model.

The 2016s still seem too expensive to me. But one advantage would be the 30kwh battery
 
I think you have two reasonable alternatives if your heart is set on a LEAF:

1. 24 kWh battery in good shape and charging at work
2. 30 kWh battery without work charging

(2) is probably a lot less expensive than you guess. Regional incentives pop up across the country that bring the cost down to below $15k for a new car. Figure on adding $1000 to ship the car to you. For example:
https://smartchargeamerica.com/nissan-leaf-group-buy/.
 
OP: I have little to add, except, listen closely to all of this advice. I've been reading this site for over six years and the advice that you've been given is absolutely sound. Bottom line: Get it in writing, pay for the electricity, or go with 30 KWh battery SV or SL. Otherwise you'll regret it, may be not this year or next, but in 3-4 years.
 
My suggestions: 1-5 with 1 being the most expensive...

1. Bolt with QC. Because I want one with 200 mile range, and the battery has active thermal management.
2. 2016 Leaf with QC and 30kWh with QC. Because it has the longest battery warranty for Leaf.
4. Leaf with 8 bars that qualifies for new battery under warranty, now. They are out there believe it or not.
5. Leaf with low 10 bar that has at least 9 month minimum time left on warranty AND we can run some diagnostic here in the VALLEY for 7ish months. After testing, car qualifies for a new battery.

I realize that you currently only have one QC listed in your area, but the world is a changing! Good luck on choosing your next car!
 
OP,
Do you have another car you will own in addition to the LEAF ?

We do, and I honestly would not buy a LEAF as my only car. This is said as a resident of a rural area. It probably will not surprise you that I had to tow the LEAF home 150 miles after purchase, or spend a couple days at the task using the single L1 charger en-route.

If you will only have one car, I suggest you consider a plug-in. I just bought a Prius Prime as our second car. A used Volt is also a car to consider if you can stomach GM.
 
Reddy said:
OP: I have little to add, except, listen closely to all of this advice. I've been reading this site for over six years and the advice that you've been given is absolutely sound. Bottom line: Get it in writing, pay for the electricity, or go with 30 KWh battery SV or SL. Otherwise you'll regret it, may be not this year or next, but in 3-4 years.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the solid advice! I'm
 
SageBrush said:
OP,
Do you have another car you will own in addition to the LEAF ?

We do, and I honestly would not buy a LEAF as my only car. This is said as a resident of a rural area. It probably will not surprise you that I had to tow the LEAF home 150 miles after purchase, or spend a couple days at the task using the single L1 charger en-route.

If you will only have one car, I suggest you consider a plug-in. I just bought a Prius Prime as our second car. A used Volt is also a car to consider if you can stomach GM.
Click to expand...

This is definitely a 2nd if not 4th car (sometimes I feel like a used car lot)....plenty of cars. Was hoping to make a LEAF my commuter to save wear and tear on my others.

I can 100% understand the towing issue. The proposed LEAF wouldn't make it to anywhere close to the next "city" (sounds like we live in similarly rural areas). In fact, from the way this thread is going, it may not even suite my proposed commute!
 
offtosleep said:
This is definitely a 2nd if not 4th car (sometimes I feel like a used car lot)....plenty of cars. Was hoping to make a LEAF my commuter to save wear and tear on my others.

I can 100% understand the towing issue. The proposed LEAF wouldn't make it to anywhere close to the next "city" (sounds like we live in similarly rural areas). In fact, from the way this thread is going, it may not even suite my proposed commute!
Click to expand...
Now you have more options, since you can use the LEAF on most, but perhaps not all commute days.

Will the LEAF spend time toasting in the sun at either work or home ? My opinion (though not accepted by all) is this is a major factor in battery longevity.

How did your interview go ?
 
SageBrush said:
offtosleep said:
This is definitely a 2nd if not 4th car (sometimes I feel like a used car lot)....plenty of cars. Was hoping to make a LEAF my commuter to save wear and tear on my others.

I can 100% understand the towing issue. The proposed LEAF wouldn't make it to anywhere close to the next "city" (sounds like we live in similarly rural areas). In fact, from the way this thread is going, it may not even suite my proposed commute!
Click to expand...
Now you have more options, since you can use the LEAF on most, but perhaps not all commute days.

Will the LEAF spend time toasting in the sun at either work or home ? My opinion (though not accepted by all) is this is a major factor in battery longevity.

How did your interview go ?
Click to expand...

There is definitely no covered parking that I am aware of, but our highs are rarely above 80 F.

Interview went great! I was offered the position :). From my username, you may or may it have guessed my profession :lol:
 
Okay gang, back down the rabbit hole we go!

I have located a 2012 Nissan LEAF SL. It has around 37,000 miles but just had a BRAND NEW BATTERY INSTALLED under a factory warranty. It does have both the DC charger and a EVSE charging port. The guy selling it has a 240V EVSE charger he'll through in with the deal. I've got him talked down to $7500.

Opinions?
 
offtosleep said:
Okay gang, back down the rabbit hole we go!

I have located a 2012 Nissan LEAF SL. It has around 37,000 miles but just had a BRAND NEW BATTERY INSTALLED under a factory warranty. It does have both the DC charger and a EVSE charging port. The guy selling it has a 240V EVSE charger he'll through in with the deal. I've got him talked down to $7500.

Opinions?
Click to expand...
That should work. It doesn't have the heat pump and the heater will need a little work like LeftieBiker said. Also the 240V charging will take twice as long as a newer SL: Dead to full in about 7 hours instead of 4, with normal charging times being 4 to 5 hours instead of 2 to 3.

It should have the 80% option, so enjoy!

2012's also have an electric parking brake. The only problem with those is that if you run the battery clear down to dead nothing the brake will set and you won't be able to push the car until you charge the battery up a little. In other words, if you see the turtle light come on, stop using the accelerator and start physically pushing or wait for the tow truck.

There was a guy who didn't know that and he drove his car until it wouldn't go any further, only a few blocks from his home. Then he asked a neighbor of he could charge with the level 1 EVSE, but he couldn't push the car close enough for the EVSE with an extension cord to reach because he couldn't push the car at all. So he had to call a tow truck and the tow truck had to bring a generator in order to get the Leaf to release the parking brake. If he had of stopped trying to accelerate he could have pushed his car to a neighbors house and have charged there. (On the other hand this rule might apply to all Leafs since I'm not sure if battery power is needed to shift from park.)
 
IssacZachary said:
offtosleep said:
Okay gang, back down the rabbit hole we go!

I have located a 2012 Nissan LEAF SL. It has around 37,000 miles but just had a BRAND NEW BATTERY INSTALLED under a factory warranty. It does have both the DC charger and a EVSE charging port. The guy selling it has a 240V EVSE charger he'll through in with the deal. I've got him talked down to $7500.

Opinions?
Click to expand...
That should work. It doesn't have the heat pump and the heater will need a little work like LeftieBiker said. Also the 240V charging will take twice as long as a newer SL: Dead to full in about 7 hours instead of 4, with normal charging times being 4 to 5 hours instead of 2 to 3.

It should have the 80% option, so enjoy!

2012's also have an electric parking brake. The only problem with those is that if you run the battery clear down to dead nothing the brake will set and you won't be able to push the car until you charge the battery up a little. In other words, if you see the turtle light come on, stop using the accelerator and start physically pushing or wait for the tow truck.

There was a guy who didn't know that and he drove his car until it wouldn't go any further, only a few blocks from his home. Then he asked a neighbor of he could charge with the level 1 EVSE, but he couldn't push the car close enough for the EVSE with an extension cord to reach because he couldn't push the car at all. So he had to call a tow truck and the tow truck had to bring a generator in order to get the Leaf to release the parking brake. If he had of stopped trying to accelerate he could have pushed his car to a neighbors house and have charged there. (On the other hand this rule might apply to all Leafs since I'm not sure if battery power is needed to shift from park.)
Click to expand...

I'm going to use this one as a trial run and for around town. It will be my sons car too (he just turned 16). He can use it to run his siblings around to school, soccer practice, local errands etc. I'm still going to be on the look out for a 2016 SL or SV in the mean time. I really want a 30kWH battery for my commuter.
 

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