2016 30 kWh Battery data

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My car resides in Monterey and I work in Monterey, a VERY mild climate. Our yearly high is in the low 80s and we seldom see temperatures below freezing even in our coldest winters.

I average 4.2mi/kwh. Happy to get a picture of that at some point. This is my second Leaf, after I had a 2011 SL. I drive it very conservatively, always in B ECO, and when coasting I shift into N and let it roll along as much as possible before applying power again. I have my tires at 42psi as seen in my screenshots.

I will try and get screenshots at LBW and VLBW and post here. I don't know what the dealership is going to say today, but I'm sure I'll get it back while Nissan decides what to do. I'll update as I know more.
 
Your LEAF is clearly in the hands of somebody who understands how to make these batteries last, as well as a climate that is close to ideal.

I'm glad that I leased the last one!

This is just not a problem that I expect from the LG-Chem cells in the Chrysler plug-in hybrid minivan, GM Bolt EV or Volt.
 
cwerdna said:
johnlocke said:
First report of a capacity bar drop on a 2016 30KWH Leaf. Some guy in Orlando has reported first bar dropped at 14.4K. Unfortunately, he didn't provide any other info.
Post at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1401599269910910/. He's updated it to include screenshots from Leaf Spy.

annoying that I can't see the facebook post. It forces me to request to join the group and then I'm waiting on a group admin to accept the request. Still can't see the post.
 
armelwani said:
My car resides in Monterey and I work in Monterey, a VERY mild climate. Our yearly high is in the low 80s and we seldom see temperatures below freezing even in our coldest winters.

I average 4.2mi/kwh. Happy to get a picture of that at some point. This is my second Leaf, after I had a 2011 SL. I drive it very conservatively, always in B ECO, and when coasting I shift into N and let it roll along as much as possible before applying power again. I have my tires at 42psi as seen in my screenshots.

I will try and get screenshots at LBW and VLBW and post here. I don't know what the dealership is going to say today, but I'm sure I'll get it back while Nissan decides what to do. I'll update as I know more.

sounds like you are doing everything right. what is your average daily mileage? Sometimes if its too low that will depress stats but not to the point of losing bars. Right after I got mine, I went 2 weeks with very little driving with half the days at under 10 miles, charging it just a few hours every few days or so and it dropped to 98% SOH and 81.17 ahr. Due primarily to my wanting to see where the numbers would go and also a slow time at work

But when things picked up, this included several fast charges (about half the days it was 2 charges a day) and stats went back to new 100% SOH, 82.34 ahr.

I used to live in Marina so pretty familiar with the climate you have and I have to think most of the damage was done before you got the car. Another reason why I won't get a LEAF without plugging in LEAF Spy first and always select a car no more than 2 months off the factory floor. On my 2016 S 30, I got it on Veteran's Day. For the uninformed, my version started on the factory floor in Oct.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
sounds like you are doing everything right. what is your average daily mileage? Sometimes if its too low that will depress stats but not to the point of losing bars. Right after I got mine, I went 2 weeks with very little driving with half the days at under 10 miles, charging it just a few hours every few days or so and it dropped to 98% SOH and 81.17 ahr. Due primarily to my wanting to see where the numbers would go and also a slow time at work

But when things picked up, this included several fast charges (about half the days it was 2 charges a day) and stats went back to new 100% SOH, 82.34 ahr.

I used to live in Marina so pretty familiar with the climate you have and I have to think most of the damage was done before you got the car. Another reason why I won't get a LEAF without plugging in LEAF Spy first and always select a car no more than 2 months off the factory floor. On my 2016 S 30, I got it on Veteran's Day. For the uninformed, my version started on the factory floor in Oct.

My commute alone is 20 miles round trip, but I work in IT and travel to client sites pretty regularly. It's not unusual for me to have a 100 mile day and do a couple charges in the same day. I seldom have a less than 30 mile day, so usually charging every other day from about 30% up to full.

I always list as being in Monterey because it's easier for people to identify where that is, mostly because of the Aquarium, but I actually live in Marina. Where/when did you live when you were here? For a little added perspective of my driving habits, my HQ is in Ryan Ranch and most of my clients are in Salinas, so I'm back and forth on HWY 68 very regularly.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
armelwani said:
My car resides in Monterey and I work in Monterey, a VERY mild climate. Our yearly high is in the low 80s and we seldom see temperatures below freezing even in our coldest winters.

I average 4.2mi/kwh. Happy to get a picture of that at some point. This is my second Leaf, after I had a 2011 SL. I drive it very conservatively, always in B ECO, and when coasting I shift into N and let it roll along as much as possible before applying power again. I have my tires at 42psi as seen in my screenshots.

I will try and get screenshots at LBW and VLBW and post here. I don't know what the dealership is going to say today, but I'm sure I'll get it back while Nissan decides what to do. I'll update as I know more.

sounds like you are doing everything right. what is your average daily mileage? Sometimes if its too low that will depress stats but not to the point of losing bars. Right after I got mine, I went 2 weeks with very little driving with half the days at under 10 miles, charging it just a few hours every few days or so and it dropped to 98% SOH and 81.17 ahr. Due primarily to my wanting to see where the numbers would go and also a slow time at work

But when things picked up, this included several fast charges (about half the days it was 2 charges a day) and stats went back to new 100% SOH, 82.34 ahr.

I used to live in Marina so pretty familiar with the climate you have and I have to think most of the damage was done before you got the car. Another reason why I won't get a LEAF without plugging in LEAF Spy first and always select a car no more than 2 months off the factory floor. On my 2016 S 30, I got it on Veteran's Day. For the uninformed, my version started on the factory floor in Oct.


Could be that there was a batch of bad batteries in the early 2016 SV and SL models.

My Leaf SV was one of the first builds too and my battery isn't doing so well either, down to 92% SOH 26kwh 72ah with 13k miles

I think Nissan made a tweak to the batteries which explains why nobody outside of the first released 30kwh Leafs are reporting degradation issues.
 
rcm4453 said:
Could be that there was a batch of bad batteries in the early 2016 SVs and SL models.

My Leaf SV was one of the first builds too and my battery isn't doing so well either, down to 92% SOH 26kwh 72ah with 13k miles

I think Nissan made a tweak to the batteries which explains why nobody outside of the first released 30kwh Leafs are reporting degradation issues.

Couldn't agree more. From everything I'm reading on here anyone that got a battery from factory in late 2015 on their 2016 MY has pretty severe degradation. I guess I got one of the worst considering it's only got 6500 miles and already lost a bar. Hoping that Nissan fesses up and replaces my battery so I don't have to seek legal action. Perhaps a class action lawsuit on their "new & improved" 30kwh batteries is just want they need though...
 
Got my car back. No surprises here, they say the battery is JUST FINE!!! Completely within spec, they say. They won't replace it until 4 bars are lost or it throws a code. Just... incredible. I am absolutely dumbfounded. I will be continuing to document my battery readings here for everyone to follow the degradation, and I will be calling the EV hotline DAILY until they're so sick of me that they replace my battery.
 
armelwani said:
Got my car back. No surprises here, they say the battery is JUST FINE!!! Completely within spec, they say. They won't replace it until 4 bars are lost or it throws a code. Just... incredible. I am absolutely dumbfounded. I will be continuing to document my battery readings here for everyone to follow the degradation, and I will be calling the EV hotline DAILY until they're so sick of me that they replace my battery.


Well that sucks! Guess all of us are stuck with our bad batteries until the 4th bar drops. The problem is that most likely won't happen for me as I have a little less then 2 years left on my lease. So I paid a little more to lease a Leaf with a 30kwh battery but I will be stuck getting the range of a 24kwh battery for the remainder of my lease :evil:
 
Gee, I'm starting to feel not so bad anymore. I'm just shy of 25K miles and am sitting at 68AH at full charge (around 310 GIDs). I expect to drop the first bar this summer and maybe the second as well. The question now will be the intervals between the loss of the next three bars. I still expect a class action suit to occur in two to three years. My suspicion is that the battery degradation is age related not milage driven and it will affect most if not all the 2016 and 2017 models. I suspect that hot temps will exacerbate the problem but cool climates will still see moderate losses. If that's true, Nissan will have a public relation nightmare on it's hands. It won't matter if they get it right for the 2018's because no one is going to buy a brand with known battery issues. If Tesla even comes close to their release date, Nissan will be toast. They may be able to sell Leafs in Europe but the US will be out of reach.
 
I wonder why this would even happen after they seemed to have gotten the chemistry right starting with post April 2013 builds?!?

One would think the 30kwh batteries would pick up where the 24kwh lizard packs left off, not go back to the crappy 2011/2012 chemistry!

I don't think 2017s were affected as much, seems to be batteries built end of 2015 that are degrading faster then normal.
 
rcm4453 said:
I wonder why this would even happen after they seemed to have gotten the chemistry right starting with post April 2013 builds?!?

One would think the 30kwh batteries would pick up where the 24kwh lizard packs left off, not go back to the crappy 2011/2012 chemistry!

I don't think 2017s were affected as much, seems to be batteries built end of 2015 that are degrading faster then normal.
I think that there's a buffer hidden in the software for the BMS that limits the GIDs value to a max of 363. Therefore GIDs don't start to drop until the battery drops below 78AH. That gives Nissan about 6-8 months before there's any indication of loss of capacity unless you check the AH and SOH values. If you have a late build 2016 or a 2017 with an 80+AH battery, you might not see anything wrong for up to a year. Nissan obviously knew there was a problem because they have switched to LG Cells for the 2018's. They spent a lot of money to build a new battery plant in Smyrna TN which they have effectively abandoned if they are buying LG cells now. You don't do something like that unless there's a big problem that you can't fix.
 
armelwani said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
sounds like you are doing everything right. what is your average daily mileage? Sometimes if its too low that will depress stats but not to the point of losing bars. Right after I got mine, I went 2 weeks with very little driving with half the days at under 10 miles, charging it just a few hours every few days or so and it dropped to 98% SOH and 81.17 ahr. Due primarily to my wanting to see where the numbers would go and also a slow time at work

But when things picked up, this included several fast charges (about half the days it was 2 charges a day) and stats went back to new 100% SOH, 82.34 ahr.

I used to live in Marina so pretty familiar with the climate you have and I have to think most of the damage was done before you got the car. Another reason why I won't get a LEAF without plugging in LEAF Spy first and always select a car no more than 2 months off the factory floor. On my 2016 S 30, I got it on Veteran's Day. For the uninformed, my version started on the factory floor in Oct.

My commute alone is 20 miles round trip, but I work in IT and travel to client sites pretty regularly. It's not unusual for me to have a 100 mile day and do a couple charges in the same day. I seldom have a less than 30 mile day, so usually charging every other day from about 30% up to full.

I always list as being in Monterey because it's easier for people to identify where that is, mostly because of the Aquarium, but I actually live in Marina. Where/when did you live when you were here? For a little added perspective of my driving habits, my HQ is in Ryan Ranch and most of my clients are in Salinas, so I'm back and forth on HWY 68 very regularly.

oh crap, this was in the mid 80's. I lived in little subdivision that only covered maybe 6 or 7 blocks it seems? and don't remember the name of the place but one of the streets was Okinawa St and since I was born there, I do remember that part!

But your driving pattern sounds a lot like mine. I am an auditor so 100% of my work is a client locations and they can be far or near. Add to that I am healthcare certified which means I regularly get assigned other jobs outside my district due to the specific qualifications the job requires. I just blogged a trip made the Monday before last. One thing I noticed is that the car charges a LOT faster than the 24 kwh pack at much higher SOCs which only means I am really seeing the "80% SOC in 30 mins" for the first time in 6+ years.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/03/road-trip-adventures-of-9-tb-journey.html

Now wondering if my battery stats are going to fall off a cliff this Summer? I doubt it but I first thing I would do is look at your car's time on the lot. Just because they sell em doesn't mean they know how to treat em...
 
armelwani also mentioned that he was regularly traveling to Salinas, and it's a lot warmer along the 101 corridor than it gets along the coast, even though it's only about 15 miles inland. When I was scuba diving regularly in Monterey/Carmel bays, there was a trip I made one December(?) where there was snow on the sand dunes in Marina/Sand City. I have a hard time imagining such a thing happening in Salinas. Still, if they've only had the car 6 months, sustained high temps shouldn't have been an issue, although there can certainly be a hot spell in September or as late as mid-October. Summer in Salinas, though . . . at least he doesn't have to leave the car in King City!
 
Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.
 
johnlocke said:
Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.

build date and estimated time on lot?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.

build date and estimated time on lot?
Build date is 10/15. Delivery Date was 12/15/15. Lot time was probably less than 2 weeks. I wasn't planning on buying that day since I was looking for an SV with cloth seats but ended up with a loaded SL anyway.
 
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