Lancpudn
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:17 pm
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Location: Lancashire UK

Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:26 pm

London went over it's entire 2017 emissions limit in just the first 5 days of 2017 :o that's grotesquely bad. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39088631

Lancpudn
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:17 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jan 2017
Location: Lancashire UK

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:59 pm

Yikes! I knew the war on diesel cars was coming and it's just been announced it's going to cost you up to £20 a day (toxic tax) to drive diesel engined vehicles in towns & cities. :o http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/if-y ... spartandhp

Lancpudn
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:17 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jan 2017
Location: Lancashire UK

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 3:36 am

It's official! The air pollution in Britain is higher than that in Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil, and double the rate in the United States, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). How ridiculously disappointing is that! :shock: https://www.rt.com/uk/388791-pollution- ... emissions/

The new UK clean air draft plan is being drawn up at this very moment but I wouldn't expect anything this side of the General election that's in a few weeks time though, It will be a hot potato for ICE motorists.

They're planning a daily £24/$31 charge to drive in London and my local council is planning a £7.50/$9.71 daily charge to drive in my small town in northern England.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 6:56 am

"Councils in each area would consult on the details, and newer diesel cars would reportedly be excluded."

One can only hope that the emission requirement will be a moving target.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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RegGuheert
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

What does the UK expect after subsidizing diesel engines over cleaner options starting in 2001?
The Telegraph wrote:In 2001, Gordon Brown, the then chancellor, overhauled vehicle excise duty so that cars that emitted a higher level of carbon dioxide faced a higher level of vehicle excise duty.

Labour introduced the new regime despite official warnings that diesel vehicles emit "10 times the fine particles and up to twice the nitrogen dioxide".

The move prompted a "profound" shift towards diesel cars, which produce lower levels of carbon dioxide because they are about 20 per cent more efficient than petrol engines.

Over the past decade, the number of diesel cars on Britain’s roads has risen from 1.6 million to more than 11 million and accounts for a third of vehicles.

However, diesel vehicles produce high levels of nitrogen dioxide, which can lead to respiratory disease and has been linked to 7,000 deaths a year.

Frank Kelly, the chairman of the Department of Health’s committee on air pollution, said the public were still being misled about the benefits of diesel cars.

He said: "I have full sympathy with the public who have not been provided balanced information on this issue.

"Even today if you go to buy a new car you are provided with lots of information about its CO2 emissions and nothing in respect to the pollutants it emits.

"The whole scenario is a very good example of why government policy needs to founded on best science available – not just one aspect, as it was in this case."

And it's not just cars. The UK government has been subsidizing the installation of diesel electricity generation farms to go along with renewable generators:
The Sunday Times wrote:Broughton Gifford resident Martin Freeman is outraged and concerned that the plan could set a precedent. He said, "This application is outrageous. Diesel farms are dirty, noisy and ugly. They have no place in the countryside.

"Storing 90,000 litres of diesel with no additional protection or drainage looks like a recipe for disaster, especially in an area which is prone to flooding. It’s bad enough covering green fields with solar panels, but putting polluting power-plants next to them just adds insult to injury.

"We know from experience that once you build something like this, it will expand and others will follow. We also know that Wiltshire Council doesn’t enforce breaches of planning conditions. So the only way to ensure that it is safe and not the first of many is not to build it.

"We are subsidising renewable energy because it is clean and reduces our reliance on oil. Then we pay even greater subsidies for diesel farms because the renewable energy is unreliable. You couldn’t make it up."
I'm sorry, but the UK's subsidies for diesel engines are beyond comprehension.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

SageBrush
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Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 8:17 am

RegGuheert wrote:I'm sorry, but the UK's subsidies for diesel engines are beyond comprehension.

Diesel is filthy, but it *is* a reliable back-up.

Can wind+battery be a sensible replacement ?
Or something else ? Perhaps an NG plant.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 8:40 am

SageBrush wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:I'm sorry, but the UK's subsidies for diesel engines are beyond comprehension.

Diesel is filthy, but it *is* a reliable back-up.

Can wind+battery be a sensible replacement ?.
These are grid-connected generators. Does it *really* make sense to eliminate coal-fired power plants which have already been built and then manufacture NEW DIESEL generators to take their place? The answer is that it makes no sense from any angle. It ranks right up there with leveling forests in North Carolina, pelletizing the wood, and then shipping it to the UK to burn in the formerly-coal-powered Drax plant, all the while increasing emissions and other forms of environmental damage of all kinds.

So, what's the answer? It's simple: roll out renewable resources over a time period which allows important co-requisite technologies such as storage to reach a meaningful level of maturity before being deployed. Photovoltaics with net-metering is an excellent solution at the current time to reduce emissions at lower penetration levels, but eliminating high-polluting resources and replacing them with NEW high-polluting resources does not solve any problems, but rather replaces them with new ones.

Subsidizing the manufacture and operation of diesel generators is NOT good for the environment or the taxpayers.
SageBrush wrote:Or something else ? Perhaps an NG plant.
Perhaps that's a better solution. While I'm not a fan of fracking, natural gas has allowed the US to reduce energy costs, emissions and improve security of supply. Perhaps it is the best interim technology to put into play while renewables mature.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Lancpudn
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:17 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jan 2017
Location: Lancashire UK

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 8:45 am

You're absolutely right, the past governments persuaded people to buy diesel engined cars without a clue about their emissions, It was like the blind leading the blind.

The dealers are still trying to sell diesel engined cars to people who shouldn't be buying them, they're invariably used as a local shop/errand car & have huge trouble with the annual emission test because the DPF (diesel particulate filter) is clogged with soot because of their local driving habits. they need to be running at highway speeds to burn the particulates off, the annual MOT failure rate on their DPF's is huge & expensive to repair.

I think their time is up as diesel cars are seen as public enemy number 1 at present. There are a lot of worried diesel car owners who bought diesel cars in good faith & they're wondering if these cars are going to be worthless as trade in's if the government doesn't instigate a scrappage scheme.

SageBrush
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Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 9:04 am

RegGuheert wrote: Does it *really* make sense to eliminate coal-fired power plants which have already been built and then manufacture NEW DIESEL generators to take their place?

I'm not sure, although a huge coal plant trying to serve as an infrequent, rapid ramp supplement or back-up to PV is never going to work.

In a sense they are pursuing on a big scale what plug-in hybrids offer: immediate back-up with a liquid fossil fuel. I'll be more inclined to have an opinion when I can state with confidence the fractional carbon reduction from the scheme and the cost/carbon_reduction.

This is a very YMMV, but I look outside at my Prius Prime with its yucky petrol ICE and think:
I wish I could use my LEAF for all my transport, but work is too far away
The Prime gets me to work at 105 mpg, and was inexpensive to purchase.
Overall, these two cars are run about 16,000 miles a year in my family and we consume about 100 gallons of petrol annually for out typical use.
I expect to swap the Prime for a Model 3 next year because I want to and I have the money, but LEAF+Prime is a damned good solution compared to my neighbors who currently consume ~ 1000 gallons a year for similar use profiles.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

SageBrush
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Is diesel in for a tax hike in the UK!

Thu May 18, 2017 9:16 am

RegGuheert wrote:While I'm not a fan of fracking, natural gas has allowed the US to reduce energy costs, emissions and improve security of supply. Perhaps it is the best interim technology to put into play while renewables mature.

I'm not well read about UK fossil fuel supplies and suppliers, but I could certainly understand a country deciding to avoid a strategy that depended on supplies from Russia.

If the NG supply was North Sea it sounds a lot more attractive. I was actually under the impression that the UK was going to build a huge electric connection to Norway for regional clean energy power sharing, but I am not clear about details.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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