ESVE for older home with 30 amp service

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connorhodges

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
8
Location
Savannah GA
I'm looking for a level 2 ESVE charging station. My house has the older 60 amp service entrance with a 30 amp meter. What is the best option? I found this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ClipperCreek-LCS-30P-NEMA-14-30-CERTIFIED/dp/B01K5XDNW8/ref=lp_9738402011_1_6?srs=9738402011&ie=UTF8&qid=1479583498&sr=8-6

My Nissan Leaf has the 6.6 charger
 
Not sure what you mean by a 30a meter if you have a 60a service :? are you talking about a sub meter?
I guess it depends on how much you want to dedicate to your EV charging, Clipper Creek makes a fine EVSE but you purchase them for a specific amperage and cannot change it. In your case I'd think a EVSE where you can adjust the maximum output amperage would be nice. Say your running a lot of power for other things in your house, simply dial down your EVSE. You want to charge at the fastest speed, make sure any other high loads are off in your house and set for 27.5a(max your car will charge at).
EVSEs like the GE Durastation(currently $399 at Amazon) allow you to adjust the output to several levels, although it's not really meant to adjust on the fly or frequently, amperage is adjusted on the circuit board by jumpers, it can be set for 15, 20, 30 or 40a circuits. Other EVSEs like Juicebox or OpenEVSE(start ~$500) allow you to easily adjust maximum output amperage and in the case of the Juicebox it's done using your cell phone and WiFi.
Lastly if your have a '14 or order Leaf and are OK with 20a max then you could simply have your factory EVSE upgraded by EVSEupgrade for ~$300. They also upgrade newer Leafs but they max out at 16a which I'd assume may be too low for you since you were looking at the 24a CC EVSE.
 
It would be neat to make an Open EVSE with an ammeter measuring the current being drawn by the rest of the house. It can keep adjusting the charging current to keep the total below the service limit.
 
If you only have a 60 amp service, there's a very good possibility that there simply is not enough spare capacity for you to install an EVSE. The smallest off-the-shelf L2 EVSE is 15 amps, taking up 25% of your available capacity.

I would consult an electrician before buying anything.
 
This may seem a bit much but I would still go with a 30 amp circuit and 24 amp charging.
Clipper Creek HCS-30 would be perfect.

If you really want to know then turn on everything and measure each circuit with a clamp-on ammeter.
Don't have one? they are inexpensive for just AC so get one.

Do you have?

Electric oven
Double electric oven
electric clothes dryer
electric water heat
electric furnace
Air conditioner, how many tons?
Anything else big? (240v)
 
RonDawg said:
If you only have a 60 amp service, there's a very good possibility that there simply is not enough spare capacity for you to install an EVSE. The smallest off-the-shelf L2 EVSE is 15 amps, taking up 25% of your available capacity.

I would consult an electrician before buying anything.

Great advice. I recommend a 20 amp circuit with the following:

Go-Cable

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/Go-Cable-is-THE-240V-20-Amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-GC20.htm

$299 from Quick Charge Power

Go-Cable(tm) is the super flexible and super lightweight low cost 240 volt / 20 amp portable charge cable (EVSE) for your EV sold in North America or Japan.

Full 25 foot cable length !!!

Requires a 208- 240 volt wall outlet, with a minimum 20 amp circuit.

Provides up to 3.8kW of power to your EV.

Equipped with NEMA L6-20P wall plug.

Optional adaptors for $29 each:

NEMA 14-50P (RV parks... this is the home outlet recommended by Tesla)

NEMA 10-30P (older dyers)

NOTE: the NEMA 14-50P can be modified to be safely used with NEMA 14-20P or NEMA 14-30P (newer dryers) by removing the neutral pin. Any qualified electrician can do this.

Other popular plugs available via special order.


image_14.jpeg


The maximum charge power:

16 amps or less (3.8kW at 240 volts):

Nissan LEAF (2011-2012), Chevy Volt, Chevy Spark EV, Toyota Prius Plug-In, Ford C-Max Energy, Ford Fusion Energy, ZERO motorcycle (2015 and newer with J1772), Brammo motorcycle, Smart Electric Drive, Ford C-Max Energi, Karma Fisker, Mitsubishi iMiev, Cadillac ELR, Porshe Cayenne S-E, Porsche Panamera S-E, Honda Accord Plug-In.

30amps or less (7.2kW at 240 volts):

Nissan LEAF (2013 and newer at 28 amps, however some are 16 amps), VW eGolf, Kia Soul EV, BMW i3 and i8, Ford Focus Electric, Fiat 500e, Honda Fit EV, Fiat 500e.

40 amps or less (9.6kW at 240 volts):

Tesla Model S, plus the following two Tesla powered cars; Mercedes B-Class ED and 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV

48 amps or less (11.5kW at 240 volts):

Tesla Model S (2016 and newer)
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model 3

70 amps or less (16.8kW at 240 volts):

Tesla Roadster (requires firmware update to use any charge station over 70 amps)

72 amps or less (17.3kW at 240 volts):

Tesla Model X and Model 3 with optional 72 amp charger

80 amps or less (19.2kW at 240 volts):

Tesla Model S with optional "twin chargers" (2012-2015)
 
Staque said:
It would be neat to make an Open EVSE with an ammeter measuring the current being drawn by the rest of the house. It can keep adjusting the charging current to keep the total below the service limit.

You can get a system from Brultech to measure the circuits in your house. This is the lesser system, the ECM-1240, although for more circuits they have the Green Eye Monitor (GEM) but it is significantly more expensive.
http://www.brultech.com/store/category.php?id_category=16

I am on a demand rate from my local electric company, because they are requiring all people with PV solar to be on this rate, and the Brultech (I have the GEM) shows what the house is either using or exporting. The system I have hasn't exactly been "plug-and-play" but I have gotten it working after some effort. I will say that in my house I have seen 15kw (>60 amp @ 240V) on a few occasions, but in general it is possible to keep things at 30 amps or less, mainly with determining the proper time when the dryer can be run. I'm not a certified electrician, but I believe with the Brultech data you can meet NEC rules by showing usage for a number of months, and then be allowed to legally install the extra circuit in the panel. But once again, a certified electrician could tell you more details, and with a 60 amp service you definitely want to follow code.

Switch the stove or dryer to gas, and it would free up enough for a circuit too, although a home with a 60 amp service entrance probably doesn't have an electric stove or dryer.
 
Most people are fine with 240V 16A EVSE. Leaf will fully recharge during the night.
If you have the possibility to get 60A for the whole house (like changing the meter)
you might prefer 30A charging rate IF you have no ChaDeMo stations near you.
I do have ChaDeMo available and only use 16A EVSE. Sometimes I do visit DC-charger,
but that is only 1-3 per month. I'm a heavy user, 20 000 miles per year.
 
location location location!!
where are you? In WA State? PSE Customer?

I am in the EXACT same position as you and you might want to go straight to clipper creeks website because they have many more options. I got the same as yours except with an L6-30 p plug (the more likely plug you would have installed at an older home) Ordered it Tues, it arrived yesterday.

my cost after PSE Rebate, fed tax credit, etc. shipping, about minus $120

Clipper Creek small.jpg

Here is a test charge that worked fine...
 
smkettner said:
This may seem a bit much but I would still go with a 30 amp circuit and 24 amp charging.
Clipper Creek HCS-30 would be perfect.

If you really want to know then turn on everything and measure each circuit with a clamp-on ammeter.
Don't have one? they are inexpensive for just AC so get one.

Do you have?

Electric oven
Double electric oven
electric clothes dryer
electric water heat
electric furnace
Air conditioner, how many tons?
Anything else big? (240v)


Actually the only 240v items we have are just the dryer and 1.5 ton AC. Everything else is gas
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
location location location!!
where are you? In WA State? PSE Customer?

I am in the EXACT same position as you and you might want to go straight to clipper creeks website because they have many more options. I got the same as yours except with an L6-30 p plug (the more likely plug you would have installed at an older home) Ordered it Tues, it arrived yesterday.

my cost after PSE Rebate, fed tax credit, etc. shipping, about minus $120



Here is a test charge that worked fine...

I'm located in Savannah Georgia. I didn't know any rebates were available. Thanks for the info!!!
 
1.5 air should draw about 10 amps running. Dryer probably 12 to 15.

I would still go 30 amp circuit for 24 amp car charging. Worst case you reduce your load or get a gas dryer if you have a stub right there.

If you focus on overnight charging you will have no issues. LCS-25 with 20a charging is fine too if you are overly concerned.
 
smkettner said:
1.5 air should draw about 10 amps running. Dryer probably 12 to 15.

I would still go 30 amp circuit for 24 amp car charging. Worst case you reduce your load or get a gas dryer if you have a stub right there.

If you focus on overnight charging you will have no issues. LCS-25 with 20a charging is fine too if you are overly concerned.

Thanks sooo much! Someone from Georgia Power is coming out this week to make changes to the meter for the PEV Rate plan. I'll be sure to ask them questions too.
 
Also ask if the existing system can accommodate a larger breaker.
Even an 80 amp would provide a lot of head room.

I recently added a set of air conditioners to a small apartment building. An extra 120 amps was not a concern for the existing system as reviewed by my electrician and the power company.
 
If the house has an electric dryer, the most cost effective solution would be sharing the dryer outlet with an portable level-2 EVSE by using an automatic switcher available from Ober-ev.com. The car will only charge when the dryer is not running while both are connected. Power monitoring is therefore not necessary. Even when the dryer is in use there's plenty of time for a full charge over night. My neighbor (100Amp service) used it for a while and was very happy. Since he has a 40A breaker for his dryer he decided to go for the integrated EVSE/Autoswitch solution.
 
FWIW I have a theory with significant improvements in efficiency of various things in recent years like led lights and TV's, linear compressor refrigerators and high seer ACs there may be more available capacity in some homes than you might think. We have 200A service but I've never seen the smart meter read > 6kw (without a car charging).
 
This appears to be a dead thread, but good discussion.
Google says that a 1.5 ton AC draws up to 5200 watts, and an electric clothes dryer 3000. I don't know if there are momentary power surges in those devices. 8200 watts / 240 volts = 35 Amps
 
The OpenEVSE and the JuiceBox can be set for any current up to the J1772's current. Thus if you have a 30A dryer outlet you can set them to 24A. 24A is 80% of 30A and it will charge an enhanced Leaf at nearly it's full current.

Clipper Creek makes good EVSE's but they are not adjustable. If GFCI is important to you stay away from the Chinese EVSE'S since most of them skip the GFCI protection.
 
I think this is the one for you.


After a lot of research reading every single forum about EVSE and talking to owners of different EVSEs, I decided to try the OBER products.

I ended up buying the OBER-Charger.

I was going to be thousands of dollars for us to get 240V in our garage, ended up saving more than 80% of total costs and was able to do it myself.

This is the description of the OBER-Charger from their page:

OberCHARGER combines a powerful Level-2 charger
with the OberSWITCHER.
This single box is the most cost effective solution
? if you don’t have or want a separate EVSE.
Charges most EV in 3-4 hours even when dryer is in use.
Length of J-1772 cable and plug: 20ft

Use your regular dryer wall outlet to charge your car.
Plug&Play - just connect your Level-2 charger (EVSE)
and dryer and use both at same time.

Their website is ober-ev.com

I got good reviews from friends in Europe, I think they are just starting to sell in the US market. I will post pictures of my install if anyone is interested. Just let me know or ask me any questions.
 
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