I've seen them at demos before, just not in private hands. There are certainly some Accord-like styling cues, but I don't care for the current Accords much. I especially dislike the cheesy 'chrome' trim pieces that Honda has slapped on just about every car model in their line for their most recent mid-life updates, even including the Fit for heaven's sake - it smacks too much of the irrelevant trivia that GM/Ford et al used to engage in when coming out with annual 'new and improved' models, rather than substantially improving the car itself - "look, now it's got more chrome!". I'd thought we'd gotten beyond all that, or at least that the Japanese had avoided it in the first place.GetOffYourGas said:What are your impressions seeing it "in the flesh"? I think it looks a lot like an Accord from pictures I've seen. Basically just another mid-sized Honda Sedan. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109601_2017-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-first-drive-of-hydrogen-powered-sedan2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell: first drive of hydrogen-powered sedan
[GRA Note: Well, duh! Of course they were driven harder than normal, and the GOM reads low]There are now three different vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells on sale in California, and we've driven them all. The 2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell is the first one in which we were able to forget about the powertrain and simply drive. It's the best of the three . . . The Clarity is a mid-size sedan, with some strange exterior design cues but a spacious, comfortable, and pleasant interior that's nicely appointed. . . .
On the road, Honda has done a better job of suppressing noise, vibration, harshness, and mechanical sounds than Toyota did with its Mirai . . . The Clarity simply drives like a large electric sedan, complete with some electronics hum under certain circumstances. That's hardly surprising, since it's powered by a 130-kilowatt (174-horsepower) electric motor driving the front wheels. . . .
We started the trip with an indicated 194 miles of hydrogen range, and sampled the refueling experience at a "True Zero" station . . . Fueling was as simple as promised, complete with paper receipt from the pump after it was completed.
Perplexingly, though, the available-range display had risen from 194 miles to just 258 miles, even though the tank appeared on the gauge to be full. That's a far cry from the EPA rating of 366 miles of range from the Clarity's 5.5 kilograms of highly compressed hydrogen. That number is higher than the Mirai's 312 miles, the Tucson Fuel Cell's 265-mile rating, and even any Tesla model now on sale . . . We can only assume the folks who had prepared the Clarity test cars had hammered them considerably, since several other journalists also noted sub-300-mile range indicators when full.
The Clarity didn't provide the surge of instant torque from a stop that any electric car delivers; its off-the-line performance isn't bad, but it's more measured. Its fuel cell has to be fed more hydrogen to come up to full power, and the battery pack under the front seats that it uses to meet sudden power demands is just 1.7 kilowatt-hours, about the same size as the one in a conventional hybrid car.
After a couple of standing-start acceleration runs, our rough estimate for 0-to-60-mph acceleration was 9.2 seconds, slightly quicker than the Toyota Mirai we also tested. . . .
As noted, we liked our time in the Clarity. It's got better power than the hydrogen Tucson, which we found worrisomely lacking in acceleration at highway speeds, and it's more refined and pleasant inside than the Toyota Mirai. . . .
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-first-drive-review2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell
Finally, a compelling proposition . . . for a certain few.
There were also similar comments about the GOM range as GCR made - C & D saw 221 miles initially, and then 260 after refueling. I imagine these were all being driven the same day by the same journalists in sequence, and anyone driving a car after the auto mag leadfeet is probably lucky they didn't see the GOM reading in double digits.At each new hydrogen fuel-cell car introduction comes the assertion from the proud maker that its car is no longer a science experiment. The 2017 Honda Clarity fuel cell finally gives credence to that platitude. It actually realizes the potential that hydrogen fuel-cell engineers have long worked toward: to make the fuel-cell hardware entirely invisible from the driving experience. Built on a dedicated platform that also will spawn a battery-electric version and a plug-in hybrid later this year, the fuel-cell Clarity drives just like a battery-powered electric car. Nearly all of the deal-breakers that have branded previous efforts as science experiments—the strident vacuum-cleaner sounds, poor packaging, sluggish performance—have been purged. . . .
. . . the fuel-cell Clarity drives like a very heavy Accord that is entirely aware of the added girth and doesn’t try any fancy dance moves. It tops 4000 pounds, despite an aluminum hood, doors, fenders, and trunklid . . . the prevailing impression is that it feels far more nose-heavy in tight corners than its claimed 57/43 front/rear weight distribution suggests. The steering is precise, but it could be weighted stronger on-center. Selecting Sport mode—signaled by red highlighting for the gauge cluster—gives you sharper accelerator response as well as what will be welcomed on mountain roads: more regenerative braking. The brakes themselves are precise and easy to modulate. . . .
The cabin is superbly trimmed, with high-quality finishes that would look at home in an Acura . . . Materials with a reduced environmental footprint have been used for nearly 80 percent of interior surface areas. . . .
We can’t predict whether hydrogen vehicles will go down as a failed experiment or the start of a sea change. Provided you’re okay in the living laboratory, which is essentially the Los Angeles and San Francisco areas (plus a waypoint in between at Harris Ranch and an outpost near Lake Tahoe), the fuel-cell Clarity makes a viable second car—not just because Honda has subsidized it so heavily but because it’s pleasant to drive. . . .
http://insideevs.com/honda-comments-on-limited-fcev-appeal-notes-battery-electric-pilot-a-possibility/Honda Comments On Limited Fuel Cell Market, Notes A Battery Electric Pilot A Possibility
Judging by the things he's said (the article mentions his previous comments re why the Clarity BEV doesn't need more than 80 miles of range), this guy Carter sounds like someone trying to spin decisions he knows are dumb. Either that, or he's an idiot. And 60 Claritys a month, or double that FTM plus the same number of Mirais, won't flood the fueling infrastructure, at least not for a couple of years yet.Honda has made it known that it has no intention of offering a long-range electric Clarity, but that doesn’t mean the automaker will totally ignore the market for long-range BEVs.
The Honda Clarity, currently only offered as a fuel cell vehicle, will also be offered as a plug-in electric vehicle in 2018
Though intent on offering a Clarity BEV with just 80 miles of electric range, Honda says there’s a chance the automaker could do a long-range BEV in something such as the Honda Pilot SUV. . . .
Oh, but we do appreciate Carter’s comment of FCEVs. Carter says that Honda only expects to lease some 50-60 Clarity fuel cell cars per month due to the limited refueling Infrastructure. Quoting Carter:
“You can’t flood the market – the fueling infrastructure can’t handle it.”
Because 70 a month would apparently flood the market.
Thanks. From what I see, aside from the limited fueling infrastructure, unknown future price of H2 and the price of the car, which affects all FCEVs,how would the trunk work for you? As I see it that's the biggest downside relating to the Clarity FCEV specifically (well, the looks too, but that's subjective).armmynissanleaf said:Here are some ups and downs from our perspective. We drove it.
http://www.torquenews.com/1574/exceptional-zero-emissions-2017-honda-clarity
http://insideevs.com/honda-clarity-phev-42-mile-range/Honda Clarity PHEV Debuts In New York With 42 Miles Electric Range, Live Stream Debut
- All-electric range of 42 miles thanks to a 17-kWh battery pack, “based on Honda internal testing.” Total range is 330 miles.
Expected 105 MPGe on the EPA scale.
1.5-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder engine charges the pack and can drive the wheels.
Electric motor offers 181 horsepower and 232 foot-pounds of torque.
Arrives nationwide later in 2017.
Two trim levels (Standard and Touring).
Will be the top seller in the Clarity family.
- No official range yet, but the 25.5-kWH battery pack just further confirms the stories of a low, 80-mile range. SAE Combo DC Fast Charging available.
161-hp electric motor puts out 221 lb.-ft. of torque
Expected 120/102/111 MPGe (city/highway/combined) on the EPA scale.
Will hit the market with lease-only programs in California and Oregon later in 2017. . . .
rmay635703 said:Honda really isn't a player in the zev game.
Compliance only
+1, with the emphasis on price. If they have a base price under $30k I think it will do really well; between $30k and the Volt, okay; but if they price it like the Accord PHEV it will sink without a bubble.GetOffYourGas said:rmay635703 said:Honda really isn't a player in the zev game.
Compliance only
True. But the Clarity PHEV isn't a ZEV. I'm not ready to brush it off as compliance only until I see 1) price and 2) availability. If both of those are done right, it could show some impressive sales volume.
http://insideevs.com/honda-clarity-midsize-42-mpg/Honda Clarity Q&A: Midsize Plug-In Hybrid From $35,000 (Or So)
The article includes a lot of the interview with Steven Center, who says a lot of sensible things, although to me he seems to be going through the motions when repeating the official line that 80 miles range for the BEV is enough (and does say that the FCEV may well outsell it). At $35k, it's going to have to be a lot more luxurious than the Volt, but may well kill the Sonata/Optima PHEVs. This leaves the Prime free to clean up the under $30k PHEV market.To get more information, we sat down with Steven Center, vice president of the Environmental Business Development Office and the Product Regulatory Office of American Honda. Here’s a few highlights of our chat and other information that Honda disclosed about the Clarity Series:
- The price for both the Electric and Plug-In Hybrid versions of the Clarity will be in the mid-$35,000 range.
Honda expects to sell very few of the all-electric models, with the fuel cell perhaps outselling it.
Honda expects the Plug-In Hybrid to get a gasoline-only rating of 42 MPG, but official numbers are not yet available.
Honda is fully aware that the 13-mile EV range in the Accord PHEV was simply not enough.
There’s more than a hint that some sort of larger electrified vehicle is coming. Details, of course, were not available.
During Honda’s press conference earlier in the day, Center ended his presentation with this: “Electrification is the future of mobility, and the future of Honda, and it all starts now.” So now you know where he stands, at least.
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/04/13/honda-clarity-ev-electric-commentary-new-york-nyias/The Honda Clarity [GRA: B]EV doesn't make any sense
A lousy value proposition, especially compared with its own twin.
The author does have some positive things to say about the size and luxury appointments, but points out that they will be offered in its twin (the PHEV) as well.At this year's New York Auto Show, Honda launched the Clarity Fuel Cell's counterparts, the Clarity Electric and Clarity Plug-In Hybrid. It makes sense that Honda would expand its alternative-fuel model to encompass electricity, since hydrogen isn't a sure thing. What doesn't make sense is why Honda would enter the EV game with such an uncompetitive vehicle.
When compared with current electric cars in the marketplace, the Clarity Electric comes up short in both range and price. The Honda will go only 80 miles on a charge, and the company will charge you a price in the mid-$30,000s for the privilege. Both the Nissan Leaf and Kia Soul EV outperform the Clarity Electric with ranges of 107 and 93 miles respectively, and price tags in the low-$30,000 realm. But the bigger issue is the Chevrolet Bolt EV, which offers a whopping 238 miles for just over $37,000. (Note: All given prices are before incentives). The Clarity is a pitiful value proposition from a range standpoint. . . .
The Clarity Electric comes across as a truly half-hearted attempt at making a full EV. Even the Electric's availability seems reluctant, as it will only be sold in California and Oregon to begin. Perhaps Honda itself realizes that the Clarity Electric isn't good enough to take on the EV establishment. And if that's the case, we have to ask, why did Honda even bother with the car in the first place? Let's hope subsequent Clarity Electrics will be more compelling.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170425/BLOG06/170419850/for-many-hondas-clarity-is-too-good-a-deal-to-pass-upFor many, Honda's Clarity is too good a deal to pass up
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