LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

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edatoakrun said:
So, are you are saying the video above shows ~the gen two whole new dash...new instrument and center stack clusters or not?

If so, how will we survive without the tree displays on the dash...?

I've ridden in an Autonomous LEAF at the Silicon Valley R&D center, and the dash on those cars is sort of a hybrid of the Gen1 LEAF and the new car. The new dash assembly will look different from these instrument clusters. I didn't look for the tree builder, but it is so popular, it will probably carry over to the new car.
 
I like how aime days when i drive calm I max out my trees, other days for the same drive I can barely get two.
 
686b641c910c17a2ebe21e41db3875e7.jpg


Another European shot and a 40kWh rumor on a German Ev forum - with the 40kWh number supposedly coming from a Nissan employee. Have to admit it looks a little better without the trash bags :)

http://www.goingelectric.de/forum/nissan-leaf-allgemeines/neuer-leaf-40kwh-gesichtet-t22872.html
 
Another reason for the delay in the LEAF gen 2 intro may have been be to insure compatibility with The revised CHAdeMO standard (ver. 1.2) only recently announced:

March 30th, 2017

CHAdeMO Association demonstrates High Power Charging at technology exhibition

CHAdeMO association announced today that it has revised its quick charging standard
for plug-in vehicles, and its technology can now achieve quick charging with higher power.
On the same day, the Association hosted a technology exhibition at Ise City in Japan’s
Mie prefecture, where the Association publically conducted the world’s first
demonstration of High Power Charging technology, while also demonstrating a V2X
system that the Association has developed, in addition to a newly-introduced testing
device.

High Power Charging

Whereas the standard maximum current for Direct Current Quick Charging (CHAdeMO
standard) had previously been limited to 125 Ampere, the revised standard increases
maximum current to 400 Ampere, enabling an increase in charging output from 50kW
to 150kW. This helps further improve the convenience of plug-in vehicles by shortening
charging times to approximately 1/3 of previous charging times.

The revised CHAdeMO standard (ver. 1.2) was formally announced on March 24th, 2017....
https://www.chademo.com/wp2016/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/press0330en.pdf
 
Sounds like Nissan is already planning on a battery/range upgrade fairly soon after the Gen 2 intro:

Q&A with Nissan chief: EV race is poised to enter a new phase

YOKOHAMA, Japan -- Hiroto Saikawa, Nissan Motor Co.'s new CEO, aims to keep the company growing. He wants to enhance its electric-vehicle position even as rivals ramp up, and take advantage of a new alliance with Mitsubishi Motors Corp...

To overcome range anxiety by 2020, what range is necessary?

It depends on the country.

In Japan, already our 30 kilowatt-hour [battery] is almost erasing anxiety. The new Leaf coming will almost completely kill anxiety for specific countries -- Japan and a major part of Europe. I'm sure in one or two years, it is going to erase anxiety in the most difficult one: the U.S.


How long does the range need to be to do that in the U.S.?

What do you think?

Maybe 300 miles?

Good enough. It's a usable range, 300 miles....

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170410/OEM02/304109956/1221
 
edatoakrun said:
Sounds like Nissan is already planning on a battery/range upgrade fairly soon after the Gen 2 intro:

To me this is one more indication that Gen 2 Leaf won't start with a 60 kwh battery option.
 
It could come with the 30kW battery and it would still be better than the bolt and the stealerships that sell them.
 
OrientExpress said:
evnow said:
To me this is one more indication that Gen 2 Leaf won't start with a 60 kwh battery option.

What do you think about that?
Nissan keeps saying we'll have a really large range EV later (in 2020 etc). Why would they say that, if they are going to bring a 60 kWh, 230 EPA range EV in 6 months ? Not like people are really looking for that 300 mile range and 230 mile won't be attractive enough.
 
Nissan keeps saying we'll have a really large range EV later (in 2020 etc). Why would they say that, if they are going to bring a 60 kWh, 230 EPA range EV in 6 months ? Not like people are really looking for that 300 mile range and 230 mile won't be attractive enough.

I don't understand this. Are you talking about 230 miles on the EU range test? If not, don't expect much more than 150 actual miles from a 40kwh pack. That will be fine for me, but not for many others.
 
What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and a few optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?
 
OrientExpress said:
What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and an optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?
I would think 40kWh at Sept launch - 60kWh 'orderable' at launch but possibly with delayed availability and then a much larger battery (80kWh?) in 2019 / 2020.

edit: I think my preference would be the 40kWh but could be tempted by a 60kWh with a great price.
 
OrientExpress said:
What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and a few optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?

Once you go above 24kWh, my preference for a battery size is inversely proportional to the density of QCs. The more QCs around, the smaller the battery I want/need. Given the current lack of non-supercharger QCs here, the bigger the better. I'd be happy with a 50kWh Model 3, but would want at least 60-70kWh in a Leaf.
 
jhm614 said:
OrientExpress said:
What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and an optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?
I would think 40kWh at Sept launch - 60kWh 'orderable' at launch but possibly with delayed availability and then a much larger battery (80kWh?) in 2019 / 2020.

edit: I think my preference would be the 40kWh but could be tempted by a 60kWh with a great price.

Yah, you nailed it for us. 40 KWH is all we would need (our 30 KWH actually covers it) but with the right price I would look at the math...I suppose. More range would not be a seller for us and it would have to be not expensive to go bigger or really it is just kind of throwing away money.
 
An advantage of a large kWh battery pack even if you don't need it will be longer life of the battery pack due to it being charged/discharged less, and when it is discharged, to a lower depth of discharge. A 60kWh battery pack that has 75% capacity remaining still offers a lot of range of 180 miles, while 75% remaining on a 40kWh is 120 miles. Even when it gets down to 50% capacity, the 60kWh would offer 120 mile range, versus the 80 mile range of the 40kWh at 50%. That will improve resale values as the usability of the vehicle still remains, years later.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I don't understand this. Are you talking about 230 miles on the EU range test? If not, don't expect much more than 150 actual miles from a 40kwh pack. That will be fine for me, but not for many others.
Nope - EPA (or as Nissan CEO says - real life).

If we are going to get a long range (i.e. > 200 miles) Leaf in Sept, they wouldn't talk about a 300 mile Leaf coming in 2020. Would they ?
 
Durandal said:
An advantage of a large kWh battery pack even if you don't need it will be longer life of the battery pack due to it being charged/discharged less, and when it is discharged, to a lower depth of discharge. A 60kWh battery pack that has 75% capacity remaining still offers a lot of range of 180 miles, while 75% remaining on a 40kWh is 120 miles. Even when it gets down to 50% capacity, the 60kWh would offer 120 mile range, versus the 80 mile range of the 40kWh at 50%. That will improve resale values as the usability of the vehicle still remains, years later.

Add to that cold weather, high way speed hits. Even a 200 mile EV becomes a 150 mile EV with no degradation. 40 kWh would be < 100 miles.

All this talk of whether 40 kwh or 60 kwh is "enough" reminds me of those days when we were thinking whether 1GB RAM was enough.

Hopefully in a few years 60 kWh is cheap enough for EVs around $15k. I think good range for US is 3 hours of highway driving in winter, with 20% buffer. This way you fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes and off you go for 3 more hours. About 400 miles EPA.

All this assuming, we won't have a nuke war soon.
 
It will be curious how the 40kWh is any different than my 30kWh LEAF, other than the obvious. I suspect that it charges at the same 125 amp / "50kW" as previous LEAFs.

Delaying the 60kWh LEAF is not a smart move in my view. Should they offer a significantly larger battery, I suspect the 60kWh will merely be software limited. This will more easily allow the "150kW" charging that has been promised by Nissan for the LEAF v2.

As all things Nissan, and unlike the Chevy Bolt EV, the "60kWh" battery LEAF will likely not be 60kWh that are usable. Maybe 55kWh, which is about where the Tesla Model 3 base car will be.

I foresee the following:

1) Nissan LEAF v2 w/60kWh - 4 miles/kWh@65mph - 55kWh usable * 4 = 220 miles EPA

2) Nissan LEAF v2 w/40kWh - 4.1 miles/kWh@65mph - 36.5kWh usable * 4 = 150 miles EPA

Whatever Nissan says they might do in 2020 or beyond (like "300 mile range") is always subject to change, no matter how intent they may be today. I cannot imagine a 40kWh LEAF charging faster than 200 amps (about 70kW max), however, I'm confident that the 60kWh car will indeed charge up to 300 amps (about 100kW max). If Nissan has that "300 mile" LEAF in 2020, it will likely need to be an 80-85kWh battery at 3.9kWh per mile,

3) GM Bolt EV w/60kWh - 4 miles/kWh@65mph - 60kWh usable * 4 = 238 miles EPA

4) GM Bolt EV w/40kWh (easy to do with the current 96s * 3p configuration) 40 * 4 = 160 miles EPA

5) Tesla Model 3 w/50kWh - 4.5 miles/kWh@65mph - 48kWh usable * 4.5 = 215 miles EPA

6) Tesla Model 3 w/75kWh - 4.3 miles/kWh@65mph - 72kWh usable * 4.4 = 310 miles EPA
 
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