52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

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hackdroot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
93
Location
East Bay Area, CA
So I'm getting rid of my 99 Acura TL, due to a slowly dying tranny and oil leak, and would like to purchase a EV. Since I have solar at home, and am really done wrenching on used cars, a co-worker suggested a used leaf as the financing would pretty much be a wash with the gas/maint of my current ride (~200 month).

I have a 52 mile round trip commute to and from work currently. This involves a couple of 6-8% grades and a mix of about 70% ~55+mph speeds and 30% sitting in traffic. Living in the bay area, California, weather is mild to warm.

Although I may be able to charge at work in the near future (waitlisted for EV spot), currently I will need to make the drive on a single charge.

I've already begun reading all about the gotchas with the leaf and think I prefer a late model '13 to '14 year SL. I have a BT OBD II scanner and have downloaded LeafSpy, so I will be taking that shopping with me once I learn what the readings are and how to interpret them.

Is a 52 mile commute in these conditions practical? What about 62 miles on a single charge if I decided to go out for food during lunch?

I'm aware this all depends on battery condition, so I'm shooting for the best conditioned leaf I can get.

Thanks in advance for all the great resources and advice here. :D
 
Maybe a 30 KWh leaf , Volt, or Bolt. What is your Alt gain and loss over the trip? You can use Google earth to check. think you would have a problem on the fast driving days or hot and cold days.
 
It all depends on speed: are you going to keep it under 60?
I don't think the temps will be a huge factor...assuming you don't need to run the heater.
I'd say no problem with a "new" Leaf, but anything more than 2BL could be a problem, especially if you extend it to 60 miles RT.
FWIW, I was still seeing 50-mile range at 4BL (but always < 60mph).
 
Try out theEV trip planner here:

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/

Try these values after providing your start and end point:

  • Speed Multiplier: 1.0 (for lead foots, increase. Grannies, decrease)
  • Cabin Temp (°F): 70
  • Ext Temp (°F): change this to match conditions you expect in winter, spring/fall, and summer
  • Payload (lb): This includes everything in the car, such as the driver, passenger, and luggage
  • Wind (mph): for a conservative estimate of range, assume some headwind (5 mph)
  • Intial Charge (%): 100
  • Buffer Charge (%): 10

If you can share a screenshot of the results, that would be interesting...
 
speedski97 said:
Maybe a 30 KW leaf .
You mean 30 kWh. OP would then need to consider a '16 SV or SL, '16 "S 30" or '17+...

kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons.

If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.

One pays for electricity at home in cents per kWh. There are a few utilities w/residential plans where they not only bill per kWh but also have demand charges, but that's rare and complicates calculations. (Demand charges aren't unusual on many commercial plans.)

A 24 kWh Leaf has ~21 kWh usable battery but since charging isn't 100% efficient, it takes more than 21 kWh out of the wall to fully charge a dead Leaf. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155305#p155305 has some figures, but it was before the '13+ Leaf w/optional 6 kW on-board charger.

(BTW, 1 hp = ~0.746 kW. And, many .gov sites say 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh.)
 
alozzy said:
Try out theEV trip planner here:

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/

Try these values after providing your start and end point:

  • Speed Multiplier: 1.0 (for lead foots, increase. Grannies, decrease)
  • Cabin Temp (°F): 70
  • Ext Temp (°F): change this to match conditions you expect in winter, spring/fall, and summer
  • Payload (lb): This includes everything in the car, such as the driver, passenger, and luggage
  • Wind (mph): for a conservative estimate of range, assume some headwind (5 mph)
  • Intial Charge (%): 100
  • Buffer Charge (%): 10

If you can share a screenshot of the results, that would be interesting...

At 105 degF, usually peak summer temps. and 250lb payload.
Figures in parens is 27degF, lowest winter temps.

Distance 26.2 miles
Driving Time 0:41
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:41
Total Energy Used 6.4 kWh (6.8 kWh)
26 RM (28 RM)
Average Efficiency 246 Wh/mile (259 Wh/mile)
Net Elevation Change 548 feet

With traffic it's a good 50-60 mins.
 
You can find slightly used '16 30kwh SV models for about $17k. A used '16 S30 would be even less. That would be your best bet, unless charging at work will be certain in the near future. It isn't that you can't do that commute on a 24kwh leaf, it's just that you'll come to hate doing it over time.
 
I would have no problem doing 60 miles with my 12 bar Leaf in all but teens or colder for temps or a very strong head wind, I figure 70 miles in optimal driving conditions. My '12 which is missing 2 bars is lucky to make 60 miles on the best days. My driving is mostly freeway, 65mph.
You wouldn't be able to make your 52 mile commute going 70-80mph but with a 12 bar Leaf in CA you shouldn't have a problem. Hopefully by the time your battery would start to deteriorate you'll have work place charging, which even if only L1(120v outlet) it would make all the difference in the world. Note another failsafe is if you happen to have a L3 or even fast L2 en route, for the days you may be in a real hurry and maybe pushing a bit of a head wind. After driving the car for a bit you'll start to learn how much extra charge you might have or what percent it takes to get to work. If you don't have at least that much on your way home, you'll have to start looking for at least a short time charging on the way home. The nice thing about EVs is if you happen to get stuck in traffic it will actually help your range(vs driving say a steady 60 mph) opposite of ICE vehicles where bad traffic can use more fuel.
 
You're in CA. Lease or buy a new vehicle and get the $2500 state rebate. This way you'll have peace of mind regarding range, warranty and degradation. Deals are hot if you shop around.
 
Phatcat73 said:
You're in CA. Lease or buy a new vehicle and get the $2500 state rebate. This way you'll have peace of mind regarding range, warranty and degradation. Deals are hot if you shop around.

I would love a new leaf. Unfortunately, a new car will add several hundred dollars to my monthly obligations in payments and insurance. This is not an option. I was banking on breaking even on my costs by eliminating my $200+ monthly fuel bill and adding a ~200 payment at 36 mos. :(
 
LeftieBiker said:
You can find slightly used '16 30kwh SV models for about $17k. A used '16 S30 would be even less. That would be your best bet, unless charging at work will be certain in the near future. It isn't that you can't do that commute on a 24kwh leaf, it's just that you'll come to hate doing it over time.
+1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.

BTW, for the OP, is that 1,000' foot max. elevation Altamont Pass (1,009')? That would match with the 105 deg. high temp you quoted (although I do recall Livermore and/or Dublin hitting 111 a few years back).
 
GRA said:
LeftieBiker said:
You can find slightly used '16 30kwh SV models for about $17k. A used '16 S30 would be even less. That would be your best bet, unless charging at work will be certain in the near future. It isn't that you can't do that commute on a 24kwh leaf, it's just that you'll come to hate doing it over time.
+1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.

I almost never use the heat in any of my cars to be honest.

LeftieBiker said:
BTW, for the OP, is that 1,000' foot max. elevation Altamont Pass (1,009')? That would match with the 105 deg. high temp you quoted (although I do recall Livermore and/or Dublin hitting 111 a few years back).

Close, Vasco road into livermore.
 
@hackdroot

Based on your data from the EV trip planner, your one way trip looks easy. In particular, the energy requirement is 6.4kWh, which is about 30% of a 24kWh pack. That appears to be the one way trip with the net elevation gain, so the trip back will be even less.

On the EV trip planner site, just to the right of the "Route Thru Superchargers" button, there's a vertical double arrow which lets you reverse the starting and ending points. You can use that to run the calculation for the return trip too.

As long as the total energy used for both legs of the trip is <20 kWh, then you should be able to do the trip with no problem.

I would encourage you to run a simulation on colder external temps though, and with a headwind for the uphill trip, so you can estimate the worst case scenario. Also, account for a few years down the road, when your usuable pack energy might be 15 or 16 kWh.

Post back your return trip estimates from the EV trip planner site if you like, but based on what you posted (uphill trip) I think you'll easily do this trip even in winter temps and less than ideal conditions.
 
hackdroot said:
GRA said:
+1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.
I almost never use the heat in any of my cars to be honest.
Then seat heaters will do you, and the non-heat-pump equipped versions seem to be a bit more efficient when running the air conditioner. I don't remember if the 2013 S came with seat heaters, but ISTR that the steering wheel heater was missing. Pre-2013 SV/SLs will likely have batteries that are too degraded to make the round trip easily.
 
FYI, if you can pickup a used 2013 SV (April manu date or later) for around $8000 then your car loan payments on a 4 year would be around $180 or so. On a 5 year, about $145

You mentioned you have a '99 Acura 99 TL which likely gets a combined fuel mileage of 20mpg. Sounds like the 52 mile trip is your daily commute, so that's roughly 1100 miles per month. At $3/gallon, your monthly gas cost for the Acura is about $165.

Electric charges for the Leaf for the same 1100 miles would be derived from this formula: [22 days x kWh (for your daily commute)] x 0.11/kWh - probably about $30 a month.

So, your net savings (gas vs electric) is $125 per month, so a monthly loan payment of at least $145 isn't quite offset. However, you're very likely to save $$$ on maintenance costs with a much younger car, not to mention an EV like the Leaf.

Obviously, once the loan is paid off, you'll save $125 every month thereafter. If gas prices should rise over the next few years, then you'll save even more
 
For interest sake, my gas prices are way higher and we use to drive a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe that got around 14mpg combined. Vancouver (Canada) gas prices are about $4.20/gallon right now.

Doing your same commute in our Santa Fe, we would have been paying $330 per month. For us, it was a total no brainer to buy a US Leaf as we actually spent more like $425 every month on gas. We only recently realized we could import a Leaf and save a ton of money ($6K) compared to buying one in Canada.

Love the Leaf, but love the fact that we save >$375 every month now by driving an EV.
 
alozzy said:
......

Post back your return trip estimates from the EV trip planner site if you like, but based on what you posted (uphill trip) I think you'll easily do this trip even in winter temps and less than ideal conditions.

TO WORK:
Distance 26.2 miles
Driving Time 0:41
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:41
Total Energy Used 6.4 kWh (6.8 kWh)
26 RM (28 RM)
Average Efficiency 246 Wh/mile (259 Wh/mile)
Net Elevation Change 548 feet

TO HOME:
Distance 26.5 miles
Driving Time 0:42
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:42
Total Energy Used 5.2 kWh
21 RM
Average Efficiency 195 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change -548 feet


speedski97 said:
There are a few leases for $100 a month.

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the link. :)

alozzy said:
FYI, if you can pickup a used 2013 SV (April manu date or later) for around $8000 then your car loan payments on a 4 year would be around $180 or so. On a 5 year, about $145

You mentioned you have a '99 Acura 99 TL which likely gets a combined fuel mileage of 20mpg. Sounds like the 52 mile trip is your daily commute, so that's roughly 1100 miles per month. At $3/gallon, your monthly gas cost for the Acura is about $165.

Tranny issues, lower that estimate to 18mpg average, plus the 3.2 VTEC uses premium gasoline (plus I often sit in a LOT of slow traffic). Estimate to repair the oil leak and tranny are $3700 - $5800. It's not if the tranny finally dies, it's when.

alozzy said:
FYI
Electric charges for the Leaf for the same 1100 miles would be derived from this formula: [22 days x kWh (for your daily commute)] x 0.11/kWh - probably about $30 a month.

I currently am generating a surplus, so it's money shuffling. Plus the cost of charging at work is $10 a month when I do get a spot.

alozzy said:
Obviously, once the loan is paid off, you'll save $125 every month thereafter. If gas prices should rise over the next few years, then you'll save even more

I hate debt and currently have none outside of mortgage. It will be paid off early. :)
 
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