52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

alozzy said:

FYI, if you can pickup a used 2013 SV (April manu date or later) for around $8000 then your car loan payments on a 4 year would be around $180 or so. On a 5 year, about $145

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I found a 2014 yesterday I was going to test drive (SL with 27k). $8000 before fees. After 2k down a 48mo at 3.99% works out to be about $160.

Sounds perfect.

FYI, review this post as there's a decent buyers guide based on the posts in it:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23775

In particular, try to do the "25% discharge test" to verify Leaf Spy metrics.

Definitely buy a OBD2 dongle online before you test drive prospective Leafs, then learn from these forums what the metrics mean (SOH, AHr, Hx are the most important).

Just don't rely exclusively on Leaf Spy as indications are that it can't protect you from an unscrupulous dealer who has performed a BMS reset.

If you find a Leaf that looks promising, start a new thread in this same subforum and provide the following details:

• Year and trim level (S, SV, SL)
• VIN number
• Capacity bars showing on dash
• QC package?
• Date of manufacture (April of 2013 or newer is ideal)
• SOH, AHr, and Hx from Leaf Spy
• Where it was first sold (on door pillar sticker)
• Results of 25% discharge test (reset trip counter, note starting %SOC, drive until %SOC drops by 25%, note trip miles and multiply that by 4), if you are able to do that
• Price

Also, lookup the original sales sticker using this link:

http://cpo.nissanusa.com/nna/?

Just append the VIN to the end of that URL and, with luck, you'll see a PDF of the original sales sticker in your browser - doesn't work for all Leafs though.

Good luck!

Date of manufacture (April of 2013 or newer is ideal)

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This needs to be more strongly worded. As in "Don't buy a 2013 Leaf built before April of 2013, unless it already qualifies, or is about to qualify, for a new battery pack." The early builds just lose capacity too fast, especially in warmer climates. It should also be understood that ALL Leafs built before 4/13 have the inferior battery chemistry. The 2011-2012 Leafs have only Japanese build quality to argue for them.

Lots of people drive 2011/2012 Leafs and choose to do so knowing the battery pack is inferior, there's no point in being prescriptive.

So, despite the fact that you and I would only buy a post April 2013, that doesn't mean no one else should buy an older model. They just need to be informed when choosing to do so and adjust their range expectations accordingly. 2011/2012 models in particular represent a different price point and therefore a different buyer.

alozzy said:

Lots of people drive 2011/2012 Leafs and choose to do so knowing the battery pack is inferior, there's no point in being prescriptive.

So, despite the fact that you and I would only buy a post April 2013, that doesn't mean no one else should buy an older model. They just need to be informed when choosing to do so and adjust their range expectations accordingly. 2011/2012 models in particular represent a different price point and therefore a different buyer.

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I didn't suggest that no one buy a Japan-built Leaf. I was suggesting that no one should buy an early '13 Leaf unless it will get a free pack. I also said that the 2011-2012 Leafs have to have the inferior pack weighed against the superior build quality. That isn't a blanket dismissal of the Japan-built Leafs.

Thought this was pretty unambiguous

Don't buy a 2013 Leaf built before April of 2013, unless it already qualifies, or is about to qualify, for a new battery pack.

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alozzy said:

Thought this was pretty unambiguous

Don't buy a 2013 Leaf built before April of 2013, unless it already qualifies, or is about to qualify, for a new battery pack.

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It is, but it applies only to the 2013, which was built in Tennessee. It doesn't apply directly to the Japan builds.

Oh sorry, gotcha! Thought you were referring to 2011/2012 models too

This is pretty funny:



This 4 passenger electric golf cart sells for $7,495 US, listed on a Sacramento reseller's website.

Let me think...

Nissan Leaf, or golf cart. Hmm...

Really puts how cheap these used Leafs are into perspective

Well, the '14 was sold by the time I checked on it.Found a '13 SL with 26,220 miles for $7995. The photos show full bars, but I located my ELM227 BT interface and will be taking it with me tomorrow for the test drive. The Carfax report shows manufactured on 12/03/2013 and sold on 1/4/2014, so hopefully it's a late model. I'll check the doorjam when I get there.


Next step is figuring out my charging setup wiring: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=23819

Yes, possible. Nope, not practical.

I would not recommend a 52 mile commute with a 24kWh pack used Leaf to anyone. You could likely do it if your pack is like new, but it won't be fun and you'll be white knuckle driving the whole way especially in the winter. I did a 100 mile daily commute with charging at work for 3 years and it was stressful and no fun at all except for the satisfaction of driving an EV. You will likely hit low battery warning or very low battery warning constantly, perhaps daily like I did (2x a day for me). Especially when you use extra energy like when it's cold or raining (wipers and headlights) or at night with headlights or god forbid you want to use the heater to warm yourself or drive over 50mph or stop by the store on the way home etc...

If you had a 30-40 mile commute, ok used Leaf sure.

Why not look for a good deal on a 30kWh pack Leaf so you don't have to suffer? $2,500 state rebate, $7,500 federal tax credit. Or a good lease deal???

Definitely get an EV. Let us know what you decide

I am up north a bit in Seattle but i also have a 52 mile round trip commute and i have had no problems with my 93% SOH 2013 Leaf in the 3 months that i had the car. As it gets warmer outside it is getting even easier, my SOH has gone up to 95% now even.

You said you already have the BT adapter so make sure the SOH is 90%+ before buying any car.

I only charge at work (and home on the weekends) and usually get home and back to work in the morning with 15-25 miles of range left (depending on how cold it is and how good the traffic is, i will drive 65-70 if the traffic lets me, but i probably average 30-50 mph).

per what the car tells me, i leave work with 80-85 miles of range and get home with 60-65, and then arrive back at work the next morning with 15-25 (there is less traffic in the morning and it's colder so range drops faster then). i apologize for the unscientific numbers but i haven't done any leafspy recording for actual KWH used. Per the car i am averaging right on 4.0 kwh/mile.

hope this gives you some real world comparison
Marko

Like I said earlier I commute minimum 70 miles a day over hilly terrain on a single charge as long as it's over 50F, most days I add 5 - 10 miles on lunch break. On my return leg I climb and end up about 600ft above my workplace, but have to clear about 1200ft of elevation gain 5 miles from home. Yes, I hit LBW pretty much every day, but not always. Sometimes I hit VLBW. I can charge at work but only do it when the weather requires or if I drive a lot that day for work reasons. It pretty much requires L2 at home otherwise you won't have 100% when you leave in the morning. In order to not be able to drive 52 miles on a 12 bar '13 you would need to drive at 2.7 mi/kwh or worse, which would be an accomplishment in itself at the OP's maximum of 55mph and living in CA.

I concur with VitaminJ, a 52 mile RT commute is very doable in a 24 KWH Leaf. I have been doing it in my 2015SV for almost a year. I do not hit LBW unless I do major additional driving after work. I do most of my commute at 60-65MPH.

Based on his signature, EVDrive had a 2011 Leaf, which likely explains why he's not recommending a 50 mile commute due to his own experiences.

A 2013 SV or newer should be OK though, even with a 24kWh pack, unless there was a huge elevation gain (not the case for the OP) and/or extreme weather.

I mostly wouldn't recommend a 52 mile commute with a 24kWh(21kWh usable) LEAF.

Not without at least some warnings over range loss due to weather, range loss due to battery capacity loss and unexpected events like the main route home closed for some reason.

Weather varies a lot from day to day, and climate (long term history of weather) varies a lot from place to place. In Ft McMurray, Alberta, Canada, cold weather is likely to put a real dent in range (record low -53C or -64 F). On the other hand, in Florida USA cold weather isn't likely to much impact on range. Wind, rain, snow, slush and such all have a variable impact, both day to day and from place to place.

Wind can have a significant impact. http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23789

Weather, then add in a battery that is near the usual end of life, a 10 mile detour due to a bridge out or some other event, and you will not complete the trip without a charge stop. Once might be OK. Daily could become a problem.

Well, I drove way out to test drive a leaf only to have issues using LeafSpy. I walked away since there were two warning flags: manufacturer date of 4/2013 and 11/2 bars. Without the LS data, I wasn't rolling the dice and rolled home instead.

Started a new thread in case I was doing something stupid that others could benefit from:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23823

I walked away since there were two warning flags: manufacturer date of 4/2013 and 11/2 bars.

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That's one warning flag, not two. A few people here keep getting this wrong, and the wrong info then floats around like a cold virus, but ONCE AGAIN:

January through MARCH builds in 2013 use the old battery chemistry. BEGINNING IN APRIL the newer chemistry was used, and it's fine. I drive an April 2013 build with 12 bars, Cwerdna drives one too. The change happened IN APRIL, not after April.

Cwerdna thinks it's unclear exactly what day it happened, but I believe that since we have seen no April builds losing capacity too fast, and no March builds that don't, that the change was implemented April 1, 2013. Sort of an April Fool's Day joke in reverse...

definately hold out for a 12 bar car. hope you get the leafspy to work, maybe there is one of us near you that can let you plug into their leaf to test it.

LeftieBiker said:

I walked away since there were two warning flags: manufacturer date of 4/2013 and 11/2 bars.

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That's one warning flag, not two. A few people here keep getting this wrong, and the wrong info then floats around like a cold virus, but ONCE AGAIN:

January through MARCH builds in 2013 use the old battery chemistry. BEGINNING IN APRIL the newer chemistry was used, and it's fine. I drive an April 2013 build with 12 bars, Cwerdna drives one too. The change happened IN APRIL, not after April.

Cwerdna thinks it's unclear exactly what day it happened, but I believe that since we have seen no April builds losing capacity too fast, and no March builds that don't, that the change was implemented April 1, 2013. Sort of an April Fool's Day joke in reverse...

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Actually, I drive a May 2013 built car.

I also posted at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=483484#p483484 what Autocheck and Carfax say for the manufacture date of my car.