18K for $8500 or 55K for $7500?

LeftieBiker said:

The heated seats and steering wheel were optional in 2011, but became standard some time in 2012 and are definitely standard on all 2013 models/trims. The 2013 cars also have better heaters, including the S - that heater still uses lots of power but it heats fast and you can turn it off and use just the blower as needed. (I still would not recommend an S in any cold climate except for very short trip use only.)

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Per http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/19/2012-nissan-leaf-higher-price-tag-standard-equipment/ and http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/Leaf-Press-Kits/presskits/US-2012-nissan-leaf-press-kit, they should be standard on all '12 models. And yes, they remained standard from '13 onward. But on on '16, they started skimping again w/no rear heated seats unless you got the SL.

I test drove the 55k Leaf and the 500e today. For some reason, I couldn't get a proper reading with LeafSpy. I drove it from 100% down to 67%, and got 22.3 miles on it in the city. Based on those numbers, the range should be at 66.9 miles making the battery at approximately 80% soh, but it still has 12 bars. I'm very confused by these numbers.




The 500e estimated to have a 73 mile range after an extended test drive making its approximate soh 83.5%. I'm not sold on it either since the negotiated price was $7900.

Overall, I liked the Leaf better. It felt more like a real car than the 500e. I just don't want to pull the trigger if there's something fishy with the battery.

For a Leaf with 55k miles on it, a SOH of 100% and AHr of 67 are both too high to be believed. This has to be a Leaf that the BMS was reset on, particularly in light of the drive test you did. Or it's the best battery that Nissan has ever produced.

Having developed a healthy skepticism in my 47 years, I would say the BMS was reset.

I personally wouldn't buy that car.

alozzy said:

For a Leaf with 55k miles on it, a SOH of 100% and AHr of 67 are both too high to be believed. This has to be a Leaf that the BMS was reset on, particularly in light of the drive test you did. Or it's the best battery that Nissan has ever produced.

Having developed a healthy skepticism in my 47 years, I would say the BMS was reset.

I personally wouldn't buy that car.

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Would a BMS reset make the Leaf have 12 bars? It could be my scanner. I've only used it on that Leaf.

Based on the screenshot you posted, LeafSpy seems to be reading the BMS stats via your OBD2 dongle just fine.

A BMS reset will temporarily reset the battery stats to factory defaults, which is what Leaf Spy is showing - a perfect battery. So yes, 12 bars, 100% SOH, etc.

Honestly, walk away from that one - too risky.

alozzy said:

Based on the screenshot you posted, LeafSpy seems to be reading the BMS stats via your OBD2 dongle just fine.

A BMS reset will temporarily reset the battery stats to factory defaults, which is what Leaf Spy is showing - a perfect battery. So yes, 12 bars, 100% SOH, etc.

Honestly, walk away from that one - too risky.

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OK. Thanks for the warning.

Whoever buys that car may see the Leaf Spy stats drop like a stone over the next few weeks if it was reset, as the BMS learns the real battery health (which, if reset, is probably an SOH of 80 something percent).

Just noticed that the cells are pretty unbalanced too, based on the bar graph.

As a warning to other potential buyers, I would post the VIN # here

alozzy said:

As a warning to other potential buyers, I would post the VIN # here

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1N4AZ0CP0DC414859

Looks like the Leaf may not be an option for me until more of them hit the market.

It's up to you, of course, whether you want to take the risk of ending up with a Leaf that may have an actual SOH of 80% or so.

Only you can decide if the gamble is worth it.

alozzy said:

Based on the screenshot you posted, LeafSpy seems to be reading the BMS stats via your OBD2 dongle just fine.

A BMS reset will temporarily reset the battery stats to factory defaults, which is what Leaf Spy is showing - a perfect battery. So yes, 12 bars, 100% SOH, etc.

Honestly, walk away from that one - too risky.

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I tend to agree. Unless we have other stats from folks in the Chicago area w/a similar build month and similar or lower mileage w/stats that good, I also suspect a BMS reset.

alozzy said:

Just noticed that the cells are pretty unbalanced too, based on the bar graph.

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12 mV isn't a big imbalance at all. I see bigger imbalances on my car at midpoints in terms of % SoC.

alozzy said:

It's up to you, of course, whether you want to take the risk of ending up with a Leaf that may have an actual SOH of 80% or so.

Only you can decide if the gamble is worth it.

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I'll have to test my scanner on another Leaf to make sure its not my device. If its at 80% soh, it's not worth it at that price tag. I'll probably have to wait or buy a 500e. Hopefully, a better option will come around. I appreciate your advice.

cwerdna said:

alozzy said:

Based on the screenshot you posted, LeafSpy seems to be reading the BMS stats via your OBD2 dongle just fine.

A BMS reset will temporarily reset the battery stats to factory defaults, which is what Leaf Spy is showing - a perfect battery. So yes, 12 bars, 100% SOH, etc.

Honestly, walk away from that one - too risky.

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I tend to agree. Unless we have other stats from folks in the Chicago area w/a similar build month and similar or lower mileage w/stats that good, I also suspect a BMS reset.

alozzy said:

Just noticed that the cells are pretty unbalanced too, based on the bar graph.

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12 mV isn't a big imbalance at all. I see bigger imbalances on my car at midpoints in terms of % SoC.

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What's weird is the GOM said I have another 73 miles left after driving 22. It just doesn't add up.

When shopping in the PNW, I never once saw a 2013 Leaf with >20k miles and a perfect battery. Lots of >90% SOH packs with equally good AHr, but 100%? That would be unreal for an EV with 55K miles on the odometer. High 90S maybe...

Seems hard to believe that IL would be a more favorable climate for EVs than WA. Seattle is right in the heart of a temperate rain forest and moderated by cold Pacific water too.

Maybe the dealer would let you drive it for a day. You could drive from 100% charge to low battery warning, which would be more accurate. Just be really careful with this one.

alozzy said:

When shopping in the PNW, I never once saw a 2013 Leaf with >20k miles and a perfect battery. Lots of >90% SOH packs with equally good AHr, but 100%? That would be unreal for an EV with 55K miles on the odometer. High 90S maybe...

Seems hard to believe that IL would be a more favorable climate for EVs than WA. Seattle is right in the heart of a temperate rain forest and moderated by cold Pacific water too.

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I agree. It just doesn't add up.

alozzy said:

Maybe the dealer would let you drive it for a day. You could drive from 100% charge to low battery warning, which would be more accurate. Just be really careful with this one.

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I might do that. They did ask me if I wanted to take it for a few hours. I didn't think it would be necessary, but that may be the only way I'd consider making the purchase.

natkra90 said:

alozzy said:

Maybe the dealer would let you drive it for a day. You could drive from 100% charge to low battery warning, which would be more accurate. Just be really careful with this one.

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I might do that. They did ask me if I wanted to take it for a few hours. I didn't think it would be necessary, but that may be the only way I'd consider making the purchase.

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Shoot for an extended, r/t drive at 60 mph on a secondary highway on a temperate day without wind so that vehicle efficiency will be about 4 miles a kWh

You don't have to start or end at any particular SoC, just note the difference. The full battery range will be
Distance_driven/difference

Example:
r/t started at 90% Soc
30 miles driven
50% end SoC

Full charge range: 30/0.4 = 75 miles

alozzy said:

When shopping in the PNW, I never once saw a 2013 Leaf with >20k miles and a perfect battery.

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I agree they will be rare, or this may be the only exception -- my car, raised in the Silicon Valley before my purchase:

https://goo.gl/photos/r87mUu6ybGqZbfUG9