52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Actually, I drive a May 2013 built car.

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Was your leased Leaf an April build, or am I just getting worse at remembering things?

52-mile commute (total round trip) is fine for a LEAF with heat pump (2013 or newer SV or SL) unless temperatures are frigid. It is also easy with 2011 or 2012 if heat is not needed. You need L2 charging because there is not enough time to recharge fully with L1. My commute is 26 miles each way with 20 of those on the freeway in the carpool lane and I have had no issues in almost 6 years. I made it using A/C with the 2011 when it was down to 8 bars before Nissan put a new battery in, but there was essentially nothing left when I got home and I would have come up short in colder winter temperatures. I have no concerns with the 2015 after more than 2 years and 38k miles. I drove 10 miles after I got home last night even though the Continental tires I have now reduced my highway range by 15% (I drove 13 miles after LBW which included 6 miles after VLBW). I currently have 11 capacity bars on the 2015 (lost first bar just before 2 years).

OMG, why would you buy tires that reduce range by 15%?? The stock tires are good overall, and are cheap to replace.

That means that out of 100 miles driven, you are donating 15 miles of range to the tires.....

LeftieBiker said:

Actually, I drive a May 2013 built car.

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Was your leased Leaf an April build, or am I just getting worse at remembering things?

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No, my leased one was a June 2013 build:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=429492#p429492
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=348704#p348704

No worries about memory. I don't remember the build months of other people's Leafs here.

My lease commenced near the end of July 2013.

The used one I bought had an OIS of around end of June 2013, so a May 2013 build month makes sense.

I recall the used car dealer (or was it NMAC?) telling me it takes maybe 3 weeks or a month (?) for a car to make it from lease return thru the system to auction. I don't recall if the end point was details available for upcoming auction, auction event itself or sold at auction.

powersurge said:

OMG, why would you buy tires that reduce range by 15%?? The stock tires are good overall, and are cheap to replace.

That means that out of 100 miles driven, you are donating 15 miles of range to the tires.....

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The stock Energy Saver Michelins were about the worst tires I have owned for my driving conditions so I replaced them with much better tires and accept the range reduction. I might have considered Ecopias and would have considered Michelin MXM4s since they worked well on the 2011, but could not find them in stock. I am very happy with the Continentals because the wet traction, dry traction, and handling are far superior to the originals. Also, they show very little wear after 10k miles. A few pennies for extra electricity every night is a small price to pay for safety.

As the OP, I have the answer to my question now. I left for my 52 mi commute this morning in my 2013 SL at 100% charge. I don't recall, but I believe the GOM said 85miles(?) at the start.

The ride to work was taxing with an 8% and 6% grade and ~+548' net elevation change. Also, the major grades had NO traffic, so I was trying my best to not be a rolling roadblock. I got behind a truck and cruised uphill at about 50-55mph. Even at that speed it seemed the battery and GOM were just falling like a rock. Knowing that everyone is going to be at a standstill a few miles up the road, it's easy to just cruise along though. Even in my ICE I never understood the rush to get to traffic. Still, trying to not be 'that guy' who is holding up traffic in the slow lane was difficult. Got to work at 66% with 53 miles on the GOM. So far, so good.

The ride home was significantly different. A LOT more traffic and a lot of downhill regen. Cruised into my driveway at 42% battery and 40 miles left on the GOM. Trip Odo said 50.0 miles total today.

Driven in B-Eco both ways. Built close to 4 trees. As ridiculous as that indicator seems, it became a game on the way home to see how well I could do. To be honest I wasn't really holding up traffic in my efforts to see how economical I could be. I just wasn't in as much of a hurry to get to the next backup.

Very encouraged by my initial run.

hackdroot said:

As the OP, I have the answer to my question now. I left for my 52 mi commute this morning in my 2013 SL at 100% charge. I don't recall, but I believe the GOM said 85miles(?) at the start.

The ride to work was taxing with an 8% and 6% grade and ~+548' net elevation change. Also, the major grades had NO traffic, so I was trying my best to not be a rolling roadblock. I got behind a truck and cruised uphill at about 50-55mph. Even at that speed it seemed the battery and GOM were just falling like a rock. Knowing that everyone is going to be at a standstill a few miles up the road, it's easy to just cruise along though. Even in my ICE I never understood the rush to get to traffic. Still, trying to not be 'that guy' who is holding up traffic in the slow lane was difficult. Got to work at 66% with 53 miles on the GOM. So far, so good.

The ride home was significantly different. A LOT more traffic and a lot of downhill regen. Cruised into my driveway at 42% battery and 40 miles left on the GOM. Trip Odo said 50.0 miles total today.

Driven in B-Eco both ways. Built close to 4 trees. As ridiculous as that indicator seems, it became a game on the way home to see how well I could do. To be honest I wasn't really holding up traffic in my efforts to see how economical I could be. I just wasn't in as much of a hurry to get to the next backup.

Very encouraged by my initial run.

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Now you just need to try it in the rain when you need defrost, or when it's as windy as it was a week or two back (trees were coming down all over here), and see if you get tired of having to drive to meet the car's needs rather than your own. I hope it works out for you.

GRA said:

Now you just need to try it in the rain when you need defrost, or when it's as windy as it was a week or two back (trees were coming down all over here), and see if you get tired of having to drive to meet the car's needs rather than your own. I hope it works out for you.

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Actually it was windy. 15mph with 18mph gusts.

hackdroot said:

GRA said:

Now you just need to try it in the rain when you need defrost, or when it's as windy as it was a week or two back (trees were coming down all over here), and see if you get tired of having to drive to meet the car's needs rather than your own. I hope it works out for you.

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Actually it was windy. 15mph with 18mph gusts.

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Good. I assume no rain/defrost use today, and it doesn't look like we'll be getting any this week - you just missed it

hackdroot said:

As the OP, I have the answer to my question now. I left for my 52 mi commute this morning in my 2013 SL at 100% charge. I don't recall, but I believe the GOM said 85miles(?) at the start.

The ride to work was taxing with an 8% and 6% grade and ~+548' net elevation change. Also, the major grades had NO traffic, so I was trying my best to not be a rolling roadblock. I got behind a truck and cruised uphill at about 50-55mph. Even at that speed it seemed the battery and GOM were just falling like a rock. Knowing that everyone is going to be at a standstill a few miles up the road, it's easy to just cruise along though. Even in my ICE I never understood the rush to get to traffic. Still, trying to not be 'that guy' who is holding up traffic in the slow lane was difficult. Got to work at 66% with 53 miles on the GOM. So far, so good.

The ride home was significantly different. A LOT more traffic and a lot of downhill regen. Cruised into my driveway at 42% battery and 40 miles left on the GOM. Trip Odo said 50.0 miles total today.

Driven in B-Eco both ways. Built close to 4 trees. As ridiculous as that indicator seems, it became a game on the way home to see how well I could do. To be honest I wasn't really holding up traffic in my efforts to see how economical I could be. I just wasn't in as much of a hurry to get to the next backup.

Very encouraged by my initial run.

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Sweet! I've found in my mountainous commute that only the uphills matter, if you can make it UP you can make it DOWN again. My commute is opposite and I have to climb 500ft to make it home, but I do! Happy Leafing!

B mode is great for traffic, but using it on the highway is more likely to increase energy consumption than reduce it. As for downhills, I find that Eco alone provides the best level of regen for all but the steepest descents.

LeftieBiker said:

B mode is great for traffic, but using it on the highway is more likely to increase energy consumption than reduce it. As for downhills, I find that Eco alone provides the best level of regen for all but the steepest descents.

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I found that B mode was difficult to use during slow (< 25mph) speed downhill grades. It was actually slowing me down too much without much gain on the regen meter. I had to use some accel to actually keep up with traffic on some of the slower downgrades in B. I wasn't sure at which point B mode on downhill was the most effective for regen. But since I was accumulating on the % and GOM during my faster descents, and I was maxing out left on the circle gauge, I figured it was doing what it was supposed to do.

Eco was a big pain to use on the uphill as it was difficult to get up to and maintain speed. Not sure if I did my range any justice by using it in those climbs.

A good strategy guide or chart on when D, B, Eco/D, and Eco/B are most effective would be great.

Tomorrow, I use more Eco/D on the downhill grades and see where it nets me.

So I thought I would follow up after my first week of driving to work with my leaf.

The L2 charging station was essential, so I couldn't start driving until Tuesday, but results are still promising. I've found that if I use D/Eco the entire time and only switch into B when I'm in either med-slow traffic, or know I am going to have to slow to a stop at the end of a downhill run, I can maximize my range. It's a balancing act that I'm getting better and better at. I figure after a few months, I'll have my routine down well enough to get the most out of my daily drive. Average speed it 45-55mph & 4.4 kWH/m My trip odometer states that I have a 50 mile round trip commute, so I'm guessing that's more accurate than google maps.

On average I get to work between 65-68% and 50-58m left. When arriving home I'm at about 38-44% and 36-40m left. One day I did get lunch a couple of miles away and still pulled into my driveway at 34% 29m. This buffer eases my concerns about having to use AC for climate control or defrost. Charging at work will also make things easier when it becomes available in a few months.

If I anticipate driving much after work, I can throw it on the charger for 30 minutes or so and bring the battery up to 70% on average, but to be honest, the ~36 miles I have left at the end of the day is sufficient for errands.

I had the charger finishing an hour before departure, but last night I moved my timer settings forward so that car finishes charging right when I am about to leave and when I got in the car this morning, the GOM stated 93 miles available. Pulled into work with 68% and 58 miles left.

Try using the accurate range estimator (not available if you have an S). Press the blue button on the steering wheel, and you will get two estimates, with concentric circles for them on the map that appears on the Nav screen. The higher number is the GOM number. The lower number is usually pretty accurate.

Thanks for providing the details on your actual experiences, as it's useful for seeing how well the EV trip planner did.

You'll recall that EV trip planner estimated the following for your commute:

TO WORK:
Distance 26.2 miles
Driving Time 0:41
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:41
Total Energy Used 6.4 kWh (6.8 kWh) about 30% of pack charge
26 RM (28 RM)
Average Efficiency 246 Wh/mile (259 Wh/mile)
Net Elevation Change 548 feet

TO HOME:
Distance 26.5 miles
Driving Time 0:42
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:42
Total Energy Used 5.2 kWh about 25% of pack charge
21 RM
Average Efficiency 195 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change -548 feet

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You mentioned that "... On average I get to work between 65-68% ..." - so the 30% discharge was reasonably accurate.

You also mentioned that "... When arriving home I'm at about 38-44% ..." - I'm assuming you didn't charge at work.

So, as predicted by EV trip planner, you used slightly less energy on the return trip (it estimated about 25% pack charge, which was very close to your actual).

In aggregate, EV trip planner estimated 11.6 kWh energy use (roughly 55% pack) so you should have about %40 - 45% pack charge when arriving home. Nice to know that EV trip planner estimated your trip well, as that suggests it might be reasonably accurate for other trips too.

FYI, if you are comfortable with it, slipping the Leaf into neutral down longer hills is the most efficient approach. I first put the Leaf into ECO mode, then slip it into neutral. That way, if I need to slow down, I can pop it back into D mode and I'll get the extra regen provided by ECO mode. If I need to slowdown even more, then I'll pop it into B mode and turn off ECO. I also often use this same tactic at traffic lights when I need to roll up to them from a distance - it's more efficient than ECO or B mode regen and I find it doesn't piss off people behind me as much as the Leaf coasts really well on stock tires.

I should also mention that if you find that the neutral mode tactic I mentioned saves you additional energy (it should, if there are quite a few downhills or rolling stops on your commute), then spoil yourself and use D mode for most of your driving. I personally can't stand ECO mode, as the Leaf becomes a gutless wonder with it on. To each his/her own though

alozzy said:

I should also mention that if you find that the neutral mode tactic I mentioned saves you additional energy (it should, if there are quite a few downhills or rolling stops on your commute), then spoil yourself and use D mode for most of your driving. I personally can't stand ECO mode, as the Leaf becomes a gutless wonder with it on. To each his/her own though

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That's where I'm still figuring things out. Assuming I'm going to end up at the bottom of a hill at the same speed (not necessarily the same time, but keeping with traffic for the most part), is it better to regen in D during that descent or to coast and apply light regen braking if needed? I'm sure this is an ageless question I'll have to experiment with. I do know that before beginning my descent I usually have about 30 miles left on the GOM. After the descent is done on all aspects of the drive, I have added 11-15 of miles back through regen.

The trip to work is brutal. The 6% grade is hard, but the 8% grade is a killer consumer and I'm sure it's the reasoning behind the actual work arrival charge being less than the EV planner estimate. There's just no way to creep up that hill and not hold up traffic (even in the slow lane). Also, some of my descents are so traffic heavy that I can't recover anywhere near what I could if traffic were flowing. EV planner can't predict this variable.

Regarding 'spoiling' myself with D: I rarely have to use it during my commute as I can keep up with the stop and go traffic fine with Eco. If I find I'm holding up the flow of traffic at a stop sign or light, I usually kick it into D to keep up, but Eco actually paces traffic well. After I get home though, I use D all the time and have a blast.

Yup, coasting in neutral beats regen, provided you are OK with accelerating (due to gravity) without braking.

As soon as you need to brake though, regen will kick in. If you need to brake more quickly (ie more regen), then ECO will regen more than D, and B will regen the most. Obviously, the least efficient is traditional friction braking.

I typically slip it into neutral downhill, with ECO mode on, then only pop it into drive briefly to check my speed (because I'm speeding or there's traffic). If I need more braking, only then do I use B mode down hills. I use B mode a lot more in stop and go traffic as it's efficient and I like one pedal driving.

alozzy said:

Yup, coasting in neutral beats regen, provided you are OK with accelerating (due to gravity) without braking.

As soon as you need to brake though, regen will kick in.

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Not if the car is still in Neutral. Be sure and return to Drive before trying to brake or its friction braking all the time.

I covered that earlier:

I typically slip it into neutral downhill, with ECO mode on, then only pop it into drive briefly to check my speed (because I'm speeding or there's traffic)

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Sorry if I wasn't clear that regen only happens with the electric drive motor engaged.