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DaveinOlyWA said:
webeleafowners said:
reeler said:
The Bolt sales are production constrained now. Should Tesla announce delay with the Model 3, I think we will see demand for the Bolt explode. I would expect sales of the LEAF to implode soon with the Bolt and even worse should the Model 3 be on time.

Many don't pay enough taxes to take advantage of the $7500 so I don't think that will be as big a factor on the Model 3. That said as an owner taking delivery in California who ordered on the first day, I expect to get my Model 3 with the tax rebate.

Leaf sales imploding?. I don't know. We just bought a new leaf and had a choice. Waiting a couple of months wouldn't have made a difference to us. But there was nothing about the Bolt that would entice us to buy it instead of the leaf...especially if it costs an extra 10 grand. Paying more money for more range Is just a complete waste for us. I think the range thing is useful for some but is more of a penis size thing for others. If we drive our leaf for the next 7 years I am willing to bet that the extra range of a Bolt over a leaf would get used zero times. Now once we are retired maybe the longer range will be more useful. But now...meh...as long it has quick charge we are good to go even if we have to make a longer trip...which I doubt will happen. We take our motorhome then. I am sure there are others like us. Heck, we barely use the range of our smart car ED. The leaf range is just gravy.

LEAF Sales are low but simply due to supply. There is simply not a lot of stock on the lots. A few articles I have read state that even under the best of circumstances, LEAF sales would not have been over 1,000 in Jan due to very low inventories.
LOLOL.. the market's flooded with them! And I can't even sell mine for a decent price.

The Leaf market has gone to the crapper. There's a boat load of them on the market and no one wants the damn thing anymore.

Maybe that's one reason Leaf sales are low.
 
GRA said:
Via IEVS:
Tesla Autopilot Update Increases Autosteer Speed, Adds Side Collision Warning
http://insideevs.com/tesla-autopilot-update-increases-autosteer-speed-adds-side-collision-warning/

(AP2) Up to 50 mph, from 45.

Summary
Data from California public trials, contrary to public perception, indicates that Tesla is a laggard when it comes to autonomous vehicle testing.
Based on the data and lack of meaningful testing, Tesla has a long way to go before it can legitimately claim to have a Level 4 autonomous solution.
Current autonomous driving and Model 3 guidance are woefully out of date and investors deserve that management provide valid updated guidance

http://seekingalpha.com/article/404...8258f5e455e2f8917743014a24c8759&uprof=44&dr=1

The 2016 reports show (image below from Wired), in a very telling way, that Google (GOOG) (GOOGL) / Waymo are in a compelling technology leadership position when it comes to autonomous driving. With about 636 thousand miles of field test data, Waymo has done almost two orders of magnitude more testing than its nearest competitor (less than 10 thousand miles of testing by GM (NYSE:GM) and Cruise Automation).
 
JasonA said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
webeleafowners said:
Leaf sales imploding?. I don't know. We just bought a new leaf and had a choice. Waiting a couple of months wouldn't have made a difference to us. But there was nothing about the Bolt that would entice us to buy it instead of the leaf...especially if it costs an extra 10 grand. Paying more money for more range Is just a complete waste for us. I think the range thing is useful for some but is more of a penis size thing for others. If we drive our leaf for the next 7 years I am willing to bet that the extra range of a Bolt over a leaf would get used zero times. Now once we are retired maybe the longer range will be more useful. But now...meh...as long it has quick charge we are good to go even if we have to make a longer trip...which I doubt will happen. We take our motorhome then. I am sure there are others like us. Heck, we barely use the range of our smart car ED. The leaf range is just gravy.

LEAF Sales are low but simply due to supply. There is simply not a lot of stock on the lots. A few articles I have read state that even under the best of circumstances, LEAF sales would not have been over 1,000 in Jan due to very low inventories.
LOLOL.. the market's flooded with them! And I can't even sell mine for a decent price.

The Leaf market has gone to the crapper. There's a boat load of them on the market and no one wants the damn thing anymore.

Maybe that's one reason Leaf sales are low.

you are talking the used LEAF market. yeah, bunch here but can't understand why anyone would elect to get a used one even for $8,000 over a new one with 30 kwh for $17,000.

but then again, there is a customer for nearly every car somewhere, right?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
you are talking the used LEAF market. yeah, bunch here but can't understand why anyone would elect to get a used one even for $8,000 over a new one with 30 kwh for $17,000.

but then again, there is a customer for nearly every car somewhere, right?
$9000 is a significant difference, especially if all you want the LEAF for is local commuting. I sold my 2012 LEAF for $7500, with only 33,000 miles on it, in immaculate condition, and was fortunate to get that much. I think used LEAFs are a bargain. They would make excellent cars for new drivers: they could get to school and back but couldn't get too far from home!

[And not everyone qualifies for the federal tax credit; I don't, for example — income much too low.]
 
dgpcolorado said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
you are talking the used LEAF market. yeah, bunch here but can't understand why anyone would elect to get a used one even for $8,000 over a new one with 30 kwh for $17,000.

but then again, there is a customer for nearly every car somewhere, right?
$9000 is a significant difference, especially if all you want the LEAF for is local commuting. I sold my 2012 LEAF for $7500, with only 33,000 miles on it, in immaculate condition, and was fortunate to get that much. I think used LEAFs are a bargain. They would make excellent cars for new drivers: they could get to school and back but couldn't get too far from home!

[And not everyone qualifies for the federal tax credit; I don't, for example — income much too low.]

this is why I say that there is a buyer for any car. If you transpo needs are modest, a used LEAF is a great option especially if you are retired on a fixed income. Electricity rates are much more stable than gas prices and sure gas is low now but I wouldn't bet money on them staying that way.

As far as income; I don't qualify for the tax credit either which is why a "lease to purchase" is my only option but again, the prices are still crazy.

on my current lease, I could have bought it for a very good price but why bother? I am paying less than $30 interest on my lease "loan" so why not bet on that residual dropping even further. This does not include the $145.95 refund I got from the dealer for "overpayment" of my ZERO drive off lease.

2016 payoff.jpg
 
Via IEVS:
Tesla Slashes Price Of Model S 75 By $5,000 To Just $69,500 (Update)
http://insideevs.com/tesla-slashes-price-of-model-s-75-by-7500-to-just-69500/

. . . A Tesla spokesperson sent InsideEVs’ the following statement on the changes:

  • “Periodically we have adjusted pricing and available options to best reflect the value of our products and our customers’ preferences. Today’s updates include slight price decreases to our 75, 75D and 90D models to account for the discontinuation of our 60 kWh models, and next week will be implementing slight price increases to our higher end 100D and P100D models. We expect our total average selling price to remain almost exactly the same.

    Price increases for our 100D and P100D models will take effect on April 24, 2017 to best accommodate customers already in the order process, while price decreases for 75, 75D and 90D models will take effect today.”
In addition to the price drop overnight, Tesla shook up the equipment list quite a bit. The all-glass roof is now standard, as is the rear powered liftgate. Deletions include the previously-optional smart air suspension and optional 72-amp charger. These options are now reserved for higher-line Teslas. Okay, so they’re not exactly deletions, as neither was standard equipment. But if you demand either of these two options on your Model S, then the 75 version isn’t for you.

Additionally, battery upgrades to 75 kWh (unlockable via OTA software update) for the 60-kWh Model S and 70-kWh Model S are priced from only $2,000 and $500, respectively.

New U.S. Tesla pricing:

Model S

75: $69,500
75D: $74,500
90D: $87,500
100D: $97,500 (beginning 4/24)
P100DL: $140,000 (beginning 4/24)

Model X

75D: $82,500
90D: $93,500
100D: $99,500 (beginning 4/24)
P100DL: $145,000 (beginning 4/24). . . .
 
Via IEVS:
Consumer Reports Downgrades Model S, X – Tesla To Respond With OTA Update
http://insideevs.com/consumer-reports-downgrades-model-s-x-tesla-to-respond-with-ota-update/

When a standard safety features is still missing some six months after promised, a downgrade from Consumer Reports is to be expected.

Consumer Reports states:

“When we purchased our latest test car, we were assured automatic emergency braking would be enabled by the end of 2016,” says Jake Fisher, director of Consumer Reports’ Auto Test Center in Colchester, Conn. “We’ve been waiting for this important safety feature, which is standard equipment on much cheaper cars.”

With the feature still not available, Consumer Reports had no choice really but to adjust scoring for the Model S and X. [GRA: From 87 to 85,
dropping the Model S below the Lexus LS and BMW 7 series] . . . .

Consumer Reports reached out to Tesla for comment and the automaker responded. According to Tesla, it will now push out an over-the-air update for the Model S and X later this week (Thursday is the target put forth by Tesla). This update will activate automatic emergency braking.

*UPDATE: Bloomberg is reporting that Tesla is taking swifter action than expected in response to this scoring downgrade. Apparently, Tesla is rolling out the update now. . . .

This isn’t the first time that Consumer Reports reached out to Tesla directly to ask when automatic emergency braking would be added. Consumer Reports states:

Consumer Reports questioned Tesla in January about AEB as part of planning for the magazine’s Annual Auto Issue, which focuses on vehicle testing and ratings. Tesla gave reassurances then that AEB would be launched soon. The company further assured CR testers for the review of the Model S 60D in February that the update was weeks away. When the review was published March 17, the new AEB still had not been launched.”

But now it seems that since Consumer Reports decided to downgrade two Tesla models, the automaker will swing into action. Coincidence? Doubt it.
 
A year ago I surprised my wife by setting up a test drive in a Tesla Model S here at the San Diego showroom. Don't get me wrong, we LOVE our Leaf and if anything ever happened to it we would gladly get another. However, we do take long road trips throughout the year, with several LONG ones during each summer. A 2-week (or 3-week) cross-country trip of from 7,000 to 9,000 miles; a 1-week trip of about 2,500 to 3,500 miles; and several shorter trips of 1,200 miles or less. Anyway, she fell in love with the Tesla and made me sign up for the Model 3 that evening.

Now, a year later, we are thinking that we would be better off with a Model S, 85 Kwh or greater, and anywhere from 2013 to 2015 Model year. I would be happy with any, but my wife wants the dark blue. I have kept my eyes open to Craigslist San Diego lately but think there must be a better source. The closer we get to our departure date (8-weeks from now) the more we want to make the long cross-country trip in our NEW (used) Blue Tesla S. We are thinking that we need the larger capacity battery, Tech Package (Auto pilot, auto parking - my wife really loved this one), and the white leather interior.

What I would love from others that have been driving their Tesla S for a while, even on long trips, is your recommendations of:

1. What other sources can I find used Tesla's for sale.

2. What features should we get: Must have, Should have, Would be nice to have, Don't need. Is any Model year preferred over another?

3. Budget I should need for the various Model Year, mileage, and options included.

4. What trip planning tools does Tesla have that will not only get us to our destinations, but plan our Super-Charger station stops. Does it give up to date access and availability?

5. Any other recommendations you think we would need when searching for our new EV.

Thank you all for your assistance in this matter.
 
Graffi said:
A year ago I surprised my wife by setting up a test drive in a Tesla Model S here at the San Diego showroom. Don't get me wrong, we LOVE our Leaf and if anything ever happened to it we would gladly get another. However, we do take long road trips throughout the year, with several LONG ones during each summer. A 2-week (or 3-week) cross-country trip of from 7,000 to 9,000 miles; a 1-week trip of about 2,500 to 3,500 miles; and several shorter trips of 1,200 miles or less. Anyway, she fell in love with the Tesla and made me sign up for the Model 3 that evening.

Now, a year later, we are thinking that we would be better off with a Model S, 85 Kwh or greater, and anywhere from 2013 to 2015 Model year. I would be happy with any, but my wife wants the dark blue. I have kept my eyes open to Craigslist San Diego lately but think there must be a better source. The closer we get to our departure date (8-weeks from now) the more we want to make the long cross-country trip in our NEW (used) Blue Tesla S. We are thinking that we need the larger capacity battery, Tech Package (Auto pilot, auto parking - my wife really loved this one), and the white leather interior.

What I would love from others that have been driving their Tesla S for a while, even on long trips, is your recommendations of:

1. What other sources can I find used Tesla's for sale.

2. What features should we get: Must have, Should have, Would be nice to have, Don't need. Is any Model year preferred over another?

3. Budget I should need for the various Model Year, mileage, and options included.

4. What trip planning tools does Tesla have that will not only get us to our destinations, but plan our Super-Charger station stops. Does it give up to date access and availability?

5. Any other recommendations you think we would need when searching for our new EV.

Thank you all for your assistance in this matter.

A post such as the above, may achieve better results by your joining the Tesla Forum and posting those
questions there.
 
lorenfb said:
Graffi said:
A year ago I surprised my wife by setting up a test drive in a Tesla Model S here at the San Diego showroom. Don't get me wrong, we LOVE our Leaf and if anything ever happened to it we would gladly get another. However, we do take long road trips throughout the year, with several LONG ones during each summer. A 2-week (or 3-week) cross-country trip of from 7,000 to 9,000 miles; a 1-week trip of about 2,500 to 3,500 miles; and several shorter trips of 1,200 miles or less. Anyway, she fell in love with the Tesla and made me sign up for the Model 3 that evening.

Now, a year later, we are thinking that we would be better off with a Model S, 85 Kwh or greater, and anywhere from 2013 to 2015 Model year. I would be happy with any, but my wife wants the dark blue. I have kept my eyes open to Craigslist San Diego lately but think there must be a better source. The closer we get to our departure date (8-weeks from now) the more we want to make the long cross-country trip in our NEW (used) Blue Tesla S. We are thinking that we need the larger capacity battery, Tech Package (Auto pilot, auto parking - my wife really loved this one), and the white leather interior.

What I would love from others that have been driving their Tesla S for a while, even on long trips, is your recommendations of:

<snip list>
A post such as the above, may achieve better results by your joining the Tesla Forum and posting those
questions there.
The Tesla Motors Club will be a much more useful forum: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/
 
GRA said:
lorenfb said:
Graffi said:
A year ago I surprised my wife by setting up a test drive in a Tesla Model S here at the San Diego showroom. Don't get me wrong, we LOVE our Leaf and if anything ever happened to it we would gladly get another. However, we do take long road trips throughout the year, with several LONG ones during each summer. A 2-week (or 3-week) cross-country trip of from 7,000 to 9,000 miles; a 1-week trip of about 2,500 to 3,500 miles; and several shorter trips of 1,200 miles or less. Anyway, she fell in love with the Tesla and made me sign up for the Model 3 that evening.

Now, a year later, we are thinking that we would be better off with a Model S, 85 Kwh or greater, and anywhere from 2013 to 2015 Model year. I would be happy with any, but my wife wants the dark blue. I have kept my eyes open to Craigslist San Diego lately but think there must be a better source. The closer we get to our departure date (8-weeks from now) the more we want to make the long cross-country trip in our NEW (used) Blue Tesla S. We are thinking that we need the larger capacity battery, Tech Package (Auto pilot, auto parking - my wife really loved this one), and the white leather interior.

What I would love from others that have been driving their Tesla S for a while, even on long trips, is your recommendations of:

<snip list>
A post such as the above, may achieve better results by your joining the Tesla Forum and posting those
questions there.
The Tesla Motors Club will be a much more useful forum: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/

Thanks, I just signed up and posted the above to that forum.
 
GRA said:
The Tesla Motors Club will be a much more useful forum: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/
I agree. But be prepared for some discussions on "TMC" that some folks are interested in discussing/arguing becoming VERY long very quickly. And, there enough Tesla/Elon fanboys there and some w/serious attitudes to be errr... off-putting.

And various people have been banned and un-banned (don't know even half the story) and at least one of the former (?) moderators had to get a restraining order against a former member (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/unhappy-with-moderation-and-personal-attacks.53796/page-5).
 
Graffi said:
Now, a year later, we are thinking that we would be better off with a Model S, 85 Kwh or greater, and anywhere from 2013 to 2015 Model year. I would be happy with any, but my wife wants the dark blue. I have kept my eyes open to Craigslist San Diego lately but think there must be a better source. The closer we get to our departure date (8-weeks from now) the more we want to make the long cross-country trip in our NEW (used) Blue Tesla S. We are thinking that we need the larger capacity battery, Tech Package (Auto pilot, auto parking - my wife really loved this one), and the white leather interior.

What I would love from others that have been driving their Tesla S for a while, even on long trips, is your recommendations of

1. What other sources can I find used Tesla's for sale. -- I found 29 blue Model S's (used SD zip 92101) on Tesla's own CPO site --

https://www.tesla.com/preowned?model=ms&price_range=0,70000&sort=price|asc&color=blue

2. What features should we get: Must have, Should have, Would be nice to have, Don't need. Is any Model year preferred over another?

Tesla doesn't really have 'model years'; more of when a new feature gets added (i.e., Autopilot) that can change the actual hardware (front fascia, etc.) to make it more desirable than an earlier mfg date; these earlier cars won't have the Enhanced AP functions but a definite must would be the Tech package so the maps, etc. are still upgradable, as you're thinking of an 85 they should have it; sunroof adds to the cars value and of course lower miles adds to value as well; finding a white leather interior may limit your choices (I didn't check the list, assume most are probably the black interior -- either leather or 'textile')

3. Budget I should need for the various Model Year, mileage, and options included. Again no model year but date of mfg.; the ones I found I limited to $70K simply because you can now buy a new Model S 75 for just under that -- low end for an 85 with a bit under 50K miles was $50K

4. What trip planning tools does Tesla have that will not only get us to our destinations, but plan our Super-Charger station stops. Does it give up to date access and availability? This feature is built in (as long as the tech package is there; just checked the least expensive model and it has this -- look into details and you'll find it); added 'bonus' on earlier cars is of course unlimited free access to Superchargers

5. Any other recommendations you think we would need when searching for our new EV. If I were to opt for a used Tesla, I would always go the CPO route, a 'normal' used one's existing remaining warranty will transfer over (8 year unlimited battery/electric motor(s) and 4 year 50K on the rest) but a CPO restarts the 4-year so its definitely worth the extra cost up front --- Tesla does a LOT of reconditioning when an owner trades one in. Many potential new M3 owners are indeed looking at the Model S if they haven't yet put a deposit down -- I probably will wait for a M3 with AWD as I live in the snowbelt Midwest, you didn't mention the D (or dual-motor for Tesla's AWD system) so should have a lot more cars to pick from. As you live in CA, don't they still have the $2,500 EV incentive? If so, when combined with the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit a new Model S 75 may be a better route to go --- see if the have any demo/service cars with a few discounts and start with a new car warranty
 
For a fraction of what a model S will cost you can just rent a car for those longer road trips, and likely find it's a far more satisfactory solution.
 
Graffi said:
1. What other sources can I find used Tesla's for sale.
I'm been working off and on to build a website dedicated to buying and selling used electric vehicles. While it's getting closer to an initial release, it won't help you today unfortunately. Used Teslas are sprinkled around the usual automotive sites (cars.com, AutoTrader, eBay, Craigslist) as well as on the Tesla Motors Club forum. One tricky aspect to shopping through the traditional sites is that you can't easily search on battery size and other EV-specific attributes.

My opinion is that the best way to buy a used Tesla is currently through Tesla Inc. However, many of their pre-owned vehicles are not listed on their website. My advice would be to contact a large sales center such as their Buena Park store. Tell them that you have a Model 3 reservation, but that you'd like to see if you can get into a pre-owned Model S sooner. I would not hesitate to get an older car with higher miles as long as you can verify that it comes with the standard pre-owned warranty. Some cars might be described as "as is", meaning that Tesla won't fix any minor, pre-existing cosmetic issues that might exist; this was the case with our used Model S.

Graffi said:
2. What features should we get: Must have, Should have, Would be nice to have, Don't need. Is any Model year preferred over another?
I understand that newer cars tend to have better fit and finish, and that some of the newer versions of parts may be more reliable. Our 2012 Model S has body panels with somewhat uneven gaps, which doesn't bother us but might be an issue for some. About a month after we bought our car, the panoramic roof exhibited a leak. Thankfully, Tesla replaced our V1.0 pano roof with the most recent revision of the pano roof, under the pre-owned warranty, instead of repairing it piecemeal.

If you go on road trips, definitely get a larger battery (85 kWh for an older car, at least 75 kWh for a newer car). Also, verify that your car has the "tech package" if buying an older Model S.

We really like our pano roof because it makes the car feel more open and provides additional headroom. The tinting is great, and we don't feel hot. Some folks with cataract issues may find the light from above to be unhelpful, though.

One of our requirements was the rear facing child seats, for a total seating capacity of seven. The ventilation doesn't reach back there so well, though, so we bought a portable 12V fan, a 12V extension cord, and a 12V "Y" adapter. Otherwise, those seats are a great addition.

AutoPilot "1.0" was available on cars from approximately late 2014 through late 2016. Many people love it. I suppose its potential value depends on the sort of driving you do. Personally, rather than putting money into an AP 1.0 car, my thinking was to hold out for something closer to full autonomy. The AP 2.0 cars are supposed to have the hardware necessary to eventually achieve this. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Graffi said:
3. Budget I should need for the various Model Year, mileage, and options included.
I'm not sure if anyone has a really good pricing model for used Teslas at this point, though some are trying. For an older Model S, I'd maybe shoot for close to $40K, which could require some patience.

Graffi said:
4. What trip planning tools does Tesla have that will not only get us to our destinations, but plan our Super-Charger station stops. Does it give up to date access and availability?
My family has found the built-in nav system to be quite useful in this regard. It predicts energy usage and shows it on a plot compared with your actual usage on the current trip. It shows nearby Superchargers, incorporates them into the route as needed, and shows current availability/congestion.

Graffi said:
5. Any other recommendations you think we would need when searching for our new EV.
If you buy from Tesla, be prepared to wait, as they don't generally prep their used vehicles for sale until orders come in. And be prepared to order a car sight unseen. Just make sure to inspect it for cosmetic issues prior to making the final payment. The warranty should cover any real, functional issues.
 
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