I'm not sure it's just the pack that is slowing sales. If they had actually improved the car in small ways, like 80% charge option reinstated, good high beams, and a small HP tweak, I think it would sell much better. I would certainly have tried to get one. Instead we have a 2017 Leaf that is actually worse in some ways than a 2013, even with more range. What Leaf driver wants to get a new car and give up features, while having to live with existing flaws that could easily have been fixed?
LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)
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I'm not sure it's just the pack that is slowing sales. If they had actually improved the car in small ways, like 80% charge option reinstated, good high beams, and a small HP tweak, I think it would sell much better. I would certainly have tried to get one. Instead we have a 2017 Leaf that is actually worse in some ways than a 2013, even with more range. What Leaf driver wants to get a new car and give up features, while having to live with existing flaws that could easily have been fixed?
EVDrive said:
realistically, looking at Euro sales, CARB is almost irrelevant. 2 of the 3 best selling cars have nothing at all to do with CARB. One was actually stopped by CARB from coming to America. (Outlander PHEV)
CARB went just that little bit too far, if they hadn't of made that little hassle, PHEV SUVs would be established in USA, and probably leading the plug in charts for sales.
Thats the first time I've heard that, how did CARB prevent the PHEV outlander from coming to the US? I've been really wanting one for years but have basically given up believing they will actually make it to this side of the pondydnas7 said:
jjeff said:Thats the first time I've heard that, how did CARB prevent the PHEV outlander from coming to the US? I've been really wanting one for years but have basically given up believing they will actually make it to this side of the pondydnas7 said:
I'll have to look it up, but when the PHEV was suitably fresh, but with all wrinkles ironed out it was ready to bring to the states. CARB changed the rules concerning how their computers could access battery status. Seems like a small deal, and should only be a 6 month delay for a healthy car manufacturer, but for Mitsubishi it was fatal to the PHEV program for the USA.
Mitsubishi USA was sick, needing to offload a perpetual loss making factory, and having burnt at least $50 million to bring the iMiEV to USA, it was so speak, the straw that broke the camels back. Mitsubishi USA is basically at hand to mouth status, CARB changed the rules part way on them, its over, perhaps Nissan can fund the Outlander PHEV coming to USA, personally I suspect Mitsubishi would just wait for the 2nd generation Outlander PHEV, its got 3 electric motors (2 on rear axle, like some Hondas) and 24kWh battery.
GRA
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Mistubishi has given all sorts of excuses as to why they haven't sold the Outlander here; the most recent ones are that they are modifying it to make its performance acceptable in the U.S. The reference to CARB delaying its debut was due to the following, over three years ago:jjeff said:Thats the first time I've heard that, how did CARB prevent the PHEV outlander from coming to the US? I've been really wanting one for years but have basically given up believing they will actually make it to this side of the pondydnas7 said:
http://insideevs.com/california-delays-mitsubishi-outlander-phevs-us-debut/
You can judge for yourself how much weight you want to put on Mitsubishi's claim.
edatoakrun
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In point of fact, 15,742 sales make the LEAF the world's best selling BEV in 2017 through Q1.EVDrive said:
Not bad at all IMO, especially considering the LEAF came to market years before most of its competitors, in a field experiencing rapid technological advancements.
Gen One LEAF's excellent design and continuing sales success are both major reasons Nissan has been in no hurry to introduce Gen Two.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/05/01/who-is-the-worlds-leading-ev-marker-no-its-not-tesla/#6eb2d7233912
OrientExpress
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what edakoakrun just said is spot on. Even after seven years the LEAF continues to be the top selling EV world-wide and owns the sub $35K market.
Expectations are high for the Gen 2 LEAF, so Nissan is just making sure they have their ducks in a row to deliver on price, value, performance, reliability and take the lessons learned from the past to provide a better owner experience.
Mark September 5th (6th in Japan) on your calendar to judge for yourself.
Expectations are high for the Gen 2 LEAF, so Nissan is just making sure they have their ducks in a row to deliver on price, value, performance, reliability and take the lessons learned from the past to provide a better owner experience.
Mark September 5th (6th in Japan) on your calendar to judge for yourself.
I think the $10k Nissan rebate on the Gen1 is more to the point. No way Nissan will offer that discount on a new design, and without the discount the new LEAF is not going to attract much consumer interest. Just look at Bolt sales for insight into Nissan's problem.edatoakrun said:
OrientExpress
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Never say never, especially if you are the owner of a Gen 1 car and want to upgrade.
DaveinOlyWA
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WetEV said:
Its not out of the question. We have someone over 80000 miles with LS readings that say he is still over 96%. I think we need to accept the fact that environment plays a role but not all LEAFs are created equally.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Had a Bolter who could only get like 170ish miles in OR which gives you an idea of how much of an impact rain (not so much cold) and climate controls can be.
On another note; My LEAF would be as low as 90 miles on crappy days which means standing water and heavy rain but easily doing 115 and not counting today, we have not had a single day of decent weather. I expect 125 will not be a challenge come Summer.
What does this mean? Your new 150 mile EV could easily not make 100 miles in Winter.
DaveInAvl
Well-known member
That was certainly our experience with our '14 LEAF built in 1/14. After 21,000 miles in Asheville we were down to 18.4 kWh and 53.25 AHr. I sure expected better in our relatively-moderate climate...DaveinOlyWA said:
Done! While I think you're right on much of this, I'm still skeptical. They will need to offer quite an upgrade for me to consider trading up. My 2011 SL works just fine for in-town use, except in the winter when regen is nearly non-existent. If I could sell it for $5k (which I doubt) and purchase a new 2018 Leaf 2 for $15k net (which I also doubt), then I'd consider it. However, I'm certainly an edge case, living in a small community with an 8 mi RT commute. Maybe 2020 when the Leaf 2 starts to come off of lease.OrientExpress said:
OrientExpress
Well-known member
Yeah, you are close however. Though 'Im not sure if you would really benefit from a new car. Forms of the new car will certainly be affortable for those with modest budgets, but it is a decision that only you can make. I'll look forward to your imressions on 9/5 (in the Americas, 9/6 in Japan) and what you decide to do.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Reddy said:
the effective price of my 2016 on lease is $17½K. You could lease a new one with upgraded heater, better fast charge profile and better batteries using your LEAF as a trade in, milk the lease for 3 years then negotiate a lower buyout at the end. As it is, with my zero down lease, my residual is $9.1K. With your driving needs, you would be set for a while. It would be a bit of money out of pocket but a much better car I think
tattoogunman
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
I would be interested to know exactly how that Bolt owner was driving and using their car to only be getting 170 miles. I've been following the Bolt and numerous owners via the net (Youtube, discussion boards, etc.) and everyone seems to consistently be getting the 250+ and there are some people who have reported slightly over 300 miles with very conservative driving and heavy regen use.
GRA
Well-known member
From the Bolt thread, describing the results from the Ampera-E's range calculator:tattoogunman said:
Note the above ranges are at 'medium' speed. The calculator can be found at http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/ampera-e/uebersicht/partials/reichweite/reichweitensimulator.html and you can also select 'High' or 'Very High' speeds. The 'High' cycle peaks out at just under 100km/62 mph, the Very High around 130 km/81 mph, and somewhere between the two or else Very High would probably best represent U.S. freeway cruising. Medium cycle seems to peak at about 80km/55 mph, with more accel/decel, and low is stop and go at a max. of 60 km/37 mph.
Very High @ 10deg. C (50 deg. F) with the heat on gives an estimated range of 281 km/ 174.5 mi., while high gives 393 km/244 mi. under the same conditions. @ 0 deg. C (32 deg. F), w/heat, High gives 319 km/198 mi., VH = 245 km/152 miles. Add the effect of wet roads, wind, hills and reserve to taste.
tattoogunman
Well-known member
GRA said:
Interesting - I guess the solution would be just using the heated seat function instead
I think most of the people that I have been following have been avoiding using their climate control, so that would sort of make sense. I know a few people showed videos where there GOM ("guess o meter") showed their range as 250 miles and by just turning on the heat or AC, it would instantly drop to 230 or so. When they switched it off, it hopped back up to the 250. Most of them are also using the regen functions heavily and seem to be having good results. Still interesting.....The Bolt uses a resistance-only heater, so when it has to provide a lot of heat in real cold it draws about 7kw - less of course in less extreme situations.
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