Cart Before The Horse??

webb14leafs · May 31, 2017

GetOffYourGas said:
Adding 30 minutes of charging to a trip that already takes 4-5 hours is hardly an inconvenience

This illustrates my point pretty well.

With current EV CHADEMO chargers (~50kW charge rate) it would take about an hour and 20 minutes to charge a 60 kWhr battery. Not 30 minutes.

I think that for most people this would be too much of an inconvenience, and that the focus should be to deploy 150kW chargers so that you COULD charge your 60kWhr battery in about 20 minutes.

webb14leafs · May 31, 2017

GlennD said:
VW is coming out with a higher range eGolf. My current car fills my needs. If I had the longer range car it would simply mean I charged more infrequently. Retired, I really do not need more range. My car was leased 9/20/16 and it has less than 4000 miles. The longest I go to is the TRW swap meet at 39 miles one way. I usually have a quarter charge when I get home.

A longer range car means nothing to me. The VW has CCS rapid charging and most new EVSE's are dual mode but L2 in my garage is currently enough for me. If I had to go some where longer range like San Diego than I would exercise the CCS rapid charge.

I'm surprised the eGolf doesn't get more publicity. Probably because it hasn't rolled out to all 50 states yet. The 2017 will have a 120+ mile range and is cheaper than the current leaf. I think it would sell really well if it got similar discounts.

GetOffYourGas · May 31, 2017

webb14leafs said:
GetOffYourGas said:

Adding 30 minutes of charging to a trip that already takes 4-5 hours is hardly an inconvenience

Click to expand...

This illustrates my point pretty well.

With current EV CHADEMO chargers (~50kW charge rate) it would take about an hour and 20 minutes to charge a 60 kWhr battery. Not 30 minutes.

I think that for most people this would be too much of an inconvenience, and that the focus should be to deploy 150kW chargers so that you COULD charge your 60kWhr battery in about 20 minutes.

Depends on the trip. You are assuming I need a full charge, which simply isn't true.

Notice that I'm talking about a 250-300 mile trip. Also implied is 1) I start with a full charge and 2) I can charge at my destination.

50kW will add 25kWh in 30 minutes. With losses, etc, let's say that you get 3 miles/kWh. That means I add 75 miles in 30 minutes.

200 miles (initial charge) + 75 miles (30m pit stop) = 275 miles.

So for my 250 mile trip, that leaves me a safety buffer.

For the 300 mile trip, I would need to stop for more like 45 minutes. Certainly less convenient, but split into two stops (again, I have kids, so I make more than two stop anyway), this is nothing.

GetOffYourGas · May 31, 2017

webb14leafs said:
I'm surprised the eGolf doesn't get more publicity. Probably because it hasn't rolled out to all 50 states yet. The 2017 will have a 120+ mile range and is cheaper than the current leaf. I think it would sell really well if it got similar discounts.

The eGolf is cheaper by MSRP, but more expensive due to fewer discounts. In the end, it is several thousand dollars more than a comparably equipped Leaf.

Similarly, the Focus EV looks great on paper. Compared to the Leaf, it has longer range, more powerful motor, and comes fully loaded for less than $20k. But due to availability and lack of discounts (not to mention the lack of a trunk), its sales are pitiful.

webb14leafs · May 31, 2017

GetOffYourGas said:
webb14leafs said:

GetOffYourGas said:

Adding 30 minutes of charging to a trip that already takes 4-5 hours is hardly an inconvenience

Click to expand...

This illustrates my point pretty well.

With current EV CHADEMO chargers (~50kW charge rate) it would take about an hour and 20 minutes to charge a 60 kWhr battery. Not 30 minutes.

I think that for most people this would be too much of an inconvenience, and that the focus should be to deploy 150kW chargers so that you COULD charge your 60kWhr battery in about 20 minutes.

Click to expand...

Depends on the trip. You are assuming I need a full charge, which simply isn't true.

Notice that I'm talking about a 250-300 mile trip. Also implied is 1) I start with a full charge and 2) I can charge at my destination.

50kW will add 25kWh in 30 minutes. With losses, etc, let's say that you get 3 miles/kWh. That means I add 75 miles in 30 minutes.

200 miles (initial charge) + 75 miles (30m pit stop) = 275 miles.

So for my 250 mile trip, that leaves me a safety buffer.

For the 300 mile trip, I would need to stop for more like 45 minutes. Certainly less convenient, but split into two stops (again, I have kids, so I make more than two stop anyway), this is nothing.

Agreed, but I think that when most people consider buying a new EV for the first time they think in terms of "HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE ME TO COMPLETELY CHARGE IT."

Your driving habits are exactly what I'm talking about though. Mostly general commuting with occasional, but consistent longer trips. Now that you own an EV you're more comfortable with the idea of it, but the issue is getting the masses to jump into the market.

GetOffYourGas · May 31, 2017

webb14leafs said:
Agreed, but I think that when most people consider buying a new EV for the first time they think in terms of "HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE ME TO COMPLETELY CHARGE IT."

Your driving habits are exactly what I'm talking about though. Mostly general commuting with occasional, but consistent longer trips. Now that you own an EV you're more comfortable with the idea of it, but the issue is getting the masses to jump into the market.

I'm with you now. IMO, that perception is a huge problem. I really don't need to make the whole trip in one shot, nor do I need to fully charge in 15 minutes. But, like you said, most people who are new to EVs don't appreciate that.

So what we need to do is lead by example. When I do get my 200 mile BEV, I will take it on these longer trips. I'll be sure to tell my friends and family how enjoyable the trip was. A lot of them just need to see it firsthand.

PHEVs are also a good gateway. If nothing else, it gets people used to the idea of starting each day with a full charge. From there, it's a smaller step to see that you don't necessarily need a 15-minute full charge on the road.

IssacZachary · May 31, 2017

GetOffYourGas said:
IssacZachary said:

What if everyone on this forum site that's contemplating on trading in their less-than-$10,000-worth Nissan Leaf for a $40,000 +200 mile EV just donated the $30,000 dollars to fund DCQC stations?
:mrgreen:

Click to expand...

If I did that, I would still have an ugly, mediocre-to-drive, 50-mile EV without a DCQC port.

For me, my Leaf covers maybe 90% of my trips, but less than 50% of my miles. I have a short commute, and live in a county that is roughly a square, 30 miles on edge. The Leaf handles my day-to-day very well. But I leave town almost every other weekend, and travel 250-300 miles each way. A 200 mile range, with a single QC pitstop is all I need. Adding 30 minutes of charging to a trip that already takes 4-5 hours is hardly an inconvenience - it takes that long to get the kids out of the car, use the rest room, and get back in and buckled up. Currently I just take the PHEV, but I'd really like to kick the gas habit completely.

And I agree that both cars don't need to handle these trips. So a 200-mile BEV would be a perfect complement to my 50-mile BEV. I think there is room in my driveway (and budget) for one of each. If Nissan were to offer 30kWh and 60kWh batteries in a nicer looking car that was actually fun to drive, then I could imagine having two Leafs.

I've got the opposite situation. I have a CHAdeMO port on my Leaf that I'll probably never use. If I got a 60kWh car I'd still probably never use it. The reason is because there is no DCQC infrastructure here. So on a 300 or more mile trip to Denver, Santa Fe or where have you, instead of pulling over and charging for 4 hours every 80 miles I'd now have to pull over and charge for 8 hours every 160 miles (although the majority of L2 stations I've seen around here have a 4 hour limit). It would save me some time since I'd have a longer head start and then be able to leave more charging for the final destination, but other than that the only benefit would be more range security.

webb14leafs · May 31, 2017

IssacZachary said:
I've got the opposite situation. I have a CHAdeMO port on my Leaf that I'll probably never use. If I got a 60kWh car I'd still probably never use it. The reason is because there is no DCQC infrastructure here. So on a 300 or more mile trip to Denver, Santa Fe or where have you, instead of pulling over and charging for 4 hours every 80 miles I'd now have to pull over and charge for 8 hours every 160 miles (although the majority of L2 stations I've seen around here have a 4 hour limit). It would save me some time since I'd have a longer head start and then be able to leave more charging for the final destination, but other than that the only benefit would be more range security.

I have a similar situation. I live in palm beach county, about halfway between orlando and miami. Right now, a trip to either would take about 5 hours because there are ZERO charging options off of I-95 or the Turnpike. With a 200 mile range, I could get beyond both of those places, but I would have to drive atleast 10-20 minutes off of the freeway and THEN charge the car for over an hour. For every 3 hours of driving, I would spend nearly 2 charging (if you include the time to get to and from the charger). This is still unacceptable.

sub3marathonman · May 31, 2017

johnlocke said:
The real problem is not what size the battery needs to be but rather how long will the battery last! If you could guarantee the the battery capacity for the life of the car, then you could just buy the size that suits your needs. But the reality of it is that the Nissan battery degrades with age and a 30 KWH mi battery is going to be good for maybe 40-50 miles after 5-6 years. You need to buy a 60 KWH battery if you want a 100 mi range in 5-6 years. ICE vehicles don't have this problem, their gas tanks never get smaller and gas milage declines only slightly as they age. Tesla seems to do much better with their batteries. Tesla may have a better technology or battery cooling solution but Nissan batteries have a lousy track record and capacity loss is a fact of life. I can live with a 30 KWH battery but not a 20 KWH. As far as the added weight of a larger battery goes, it wouldn't be much different than adding a couple of passengers.
...
The real question is can anyone other than Tesla build a decent battery that will last the life of the car?

Having lived with a 5-capacity-bar remaining LEAF, 26 miles to LBW, my perspective has changed. Every day those batteries are one day closer to death, even in a Tesla. So unless you're driving your 60kWh battery 200 miles a day, you've left excess battery capacity wasted. I know there are people who have long commutes, but for the vast majority, I'd be surprised if it was more than 50 miles per day.

And yes, that 60kWh battery might be down to your essential 100 mile range in 5-6 years, but you are closing in on the end of life for that pack, because now you're at the point where the weak cells will start to fail. And one weak cell essentially destroys the usability of the entire pack. Then you're looking at replacing 60kWh of batteries, and if the economics don't make sense for a 5-year-old LEAF with 24kWh, how much will it make sense for a 5-year-old LEAF with 60kWh? Or, at a certain number of years, even a Tesla, as other things will start wearing out over time and distance.

Bob Wilson, (IIRC), back on the Prius forum, used to be a big advocate of 120V charging, and if his vision was implemented, there would be dozens of 120V charging outlets for people to use while they're at work, essentially giving them another 1kWh of battery range every hour. Or, your 50 mile round trip is now two trips of 25 miles, easily done with under 10kWh of battery. Even a 100 mile round trip is possible as two 50 mile trips, with recharging at work, although you'd need a bit more than a 10kWh battery. Such accommodations are possible, as there are people with a Volt getting +500 mpg. And their little engine will be able to withstand years of relatively light duty much better and offset the need for 20 or 40kWh of batteries, thus making it a very economical choice. And replacing 10kWh of batteries is a much easier decision than putting 60kWh into a 10-year-old vehicle.

Put another way, yes it is great to not buy gasoline, I love that aspect too, but it would be better if five other guys and myself just bought a few gallons per year.

IssacZachary · May 31, 2017

sub3marathonman said:
Having lived with a 5-capacity-bar remaining LEAF, 26 miles to LBW, my perspective has changed. Every day those batteries are one day closer to death, even in a Tesla. So unless you're driving your 60kWh battery 200 miles a day, you've left excess battery capacity wasted. I know there are people who have long commutes, but for the vast majority, I'd be surprised if it was more than 50 miles per day.

And yes, that 60kWh battery might be down to your essential 100 mile range in 5-6 years, but you are closing in on the end of life for that pack, because now you're at the point where the weak cells will start to fail. And one weak cell essentially destroys the usability of the entire pack. Then you're looking at replacing 60kWh of batteries, and if the economics don't make sense for a 5-year-old LEAF with 24kWh, how much will it make sense for a 5-year-old LEAF with 60kWh? Or, at a certain number of years, even a Tesla, as other things will start wearing out over time and distance.

Bob Wilson, (IIRC), back on the Prius forum, used to be a big advocate of 120V charging, and if his vision was implemented, there would be dozens of 120V charging outlets for people to use while they're at work, essentially giving them another 1kWh of battery range every hour. Or, your 50 mile round trip is now two trips of 25 miles, easily done with under 10kWh of battery. Even a 100 mile round trip is possible as two 50 mile trips, with recharging at work, although you'd need a bit more than a 10kWh battery. Such accommodations are possible, as there are people with a Volt getting +500 mpg. And their little engine will be able to withstand years of relatively light duty much better and offset the need for 20 or 40kWh of batteries, thus making it a very economical choice. And replacing 10kWh of batteries is a much easier decision than putting 60kWh into a 10-year-old vehicle.

Put another way, yes it is great to not buy gasoline, I love that aspect too, but it would be better if five other guys and myself just bought a few gallons per year.

This makes me think of my father.

We had an old 1951 Plymouth Cranbrook that my dad had bought when he was young. With four children to raise and tougher economical times he didn't trade in his car when it needed a new engine. Rather he'd just rebuild it. And when the body and frame stayed getting rusty he'd take it apart, sand it and paint it.

Of course on modern cars the engine lasts longer. But still all cars are ticking time bombs. The engines, or in this case the batteries, will eventually need replacing. And when that happens it's much better to have a less expensive engine or battery.

When my EV battery finally gives out, do I really want to pay $12,000 for a 60kW battery?

DNAinaGoodWay · May 31, 2017

Philosophy? OK. How's this: The more range the better.

Given: I've lived 5 years with a 24 kWh car, have other cars, never taken the Leaf more than 200 miles in one trip. So I don't "need" more range.

But my next lease will be a 60 kWh car, and after that whatever is the most kWh car I can afford without over stretching. Why? I don't "need" to.

I have other needs. I need to think less about how much range I have vs how much range I need. I like to wander, not plan. Many times we've taken another car just because we couldn't predict how our trip would turn out. Done with that.

webb14leafs · Jun 1, 2017

DNAinaGoodWay said:
Philosophy? OK. How's this: The more range the better.

Given: I've lived 5 years with a 24 kWh car, have other cars, never taken the Leaf more than 200 miles in one trip. So I don't "need" more range.

But my next lease will be a 60 kWh car, and after that whatever is the most kWh car I can afford without over stretching. Why? I don't "need" to.

I have other needs. I need to think less about how much range I have vs how much range I need. I like to wander, not plan. Many times we've taken another car just because we couldn't predict how our trip would turn out. Done with that.

Absolutely more range is better, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

The goal of auto manufacturers is to penetrate an uneasy market. There's no range that will do this if we don't improve our charging infrastructure.

There's no doubt that a 60kWhr car will have more utility, but without better charging, there's still a line that can't be crossed for most people. I drive 130 miles to Orlando about once a month or so. The 60kWh car would accomodate this, and I would be very happy about it. It wouldn't, however, work for my occasional trips to Georgia, or to see my sister in North Carolina, or to the Keys. These trips would only be reasonably possible if there were abundant and fast charging stations near the freeway/turnpike. This fact didn't keep me out of the EV market, but I think it does for some.

magico13 · Jun 1, 2017

Charging infrastructure is incredibly important for any sort of long range trips and if it were better I'd feel more comfortable with taking the LEAF on trips more than 50 miles. Except that you have to spend a half hour charging for every hour of driving, which just isn't feasible in the slightest. That's part of why I want a Model 3, at least then I could drive for 3 hours and charge for 30 minutes, which is far more reasonable to me.

150 miles of range would be my sweet spot. I have regular trips that are 50-60 miles each way and I can't easily charge at the end point (again, the infrastructure is an issue). One of my trips has a fast charger near the end (but still a few miles out of the way) and another in the middle, but I would probably have to stop twice, once at the end and again on the way home, which would cost $20+ and add an hour of charging time to 2 hours of driving. It's cheaper and faster just to take my wife's Rav4 that gets 24mpg. With 150 miles of EPA range I could make that trip there and back without having to spend a bunch of time and money charging, during the summer and maybe the winter. The other 50 mile trip has no fast chargers along the route and I can only trickle charge at the end, so if we're not staying there for over a day then we have to take the Rav4. Again, 150 miles range would allow me to make that trip there and back without charging if necessary. That one has a ferry ride toward the end and parking is much cheaper than taking the car across, but I wouldn't be able to make it home in the LEAF if I didn't recharge.

With 200+ miles range I can make all of those regular trips without recharging, in winter, in 5 or more years. It would almost eliminate any need for us to have an ICE, whereas the LEAF still absolutely requires us to have one. Add in good charging infrastructure (ie, superchargers since they're fast and regularly spaced) and we could do any road trip in an EV that I can think of us conceivably wanting to do. I'd really love to give my wife the LEAF and have a Model 3 (or Bolt, but charging infrastructure again...) for myself, which would work for 99% of our driving.

powersurge · Jun 1, 2017

All of this debate about the NEED to increase range and what it takes for car makers to get "market penetration" of electric cars is very humorous to me... I feel, like a number of posters on this topic think that debating what the ideal electric car is.... Buying the car that fills your daily needs.

I don't care about anybody who poo poos the current Leafs because they may "need" to go on a 150, 200, or 300 mile trip. If that is really YOUR priority, DONT BUY AN EV... Even if car makers satisfied those requirements, you would find some guys that complain they need a car to cover a 400 or 500 mile trip!!!

The older I get, the more I find that you have to live your life for "what you need", and you will be happy, and.... that there is "No free lunch" (for you old timers that know what that means). For arguments sake, Sure, you could get a 100KWH battery that could do everything you want. BUT, you would pay dearly for that luxury, and that convenience would cost more than the car itself. Forget about replacing it when your car is 10 year old..

SO... IMVVVHO..... I am perfectly happy with my Current Leaf, I will love driving it every day I own it. I will be perfectly happy replacing the "small" battery some day (for an affordable "small battery" price). I would love to be driving My leaf for decades more, and have people say... "wow that is a Leaf, the first good EV!"

I do not care that my Leaf can't go 150 miles nonstop. I do not care that some people don't like that. ALSO, I do not care what the car companies "have to do" to increase EV car sales (I KNOW that they are not interested in even marketing electric cars, or they would have in the past 7 years of the Leaf)...

MY HOPEFUL WISH - What I would LOVE... If the federal and local governments really wanted, they would install charging stations in all public parking, malls, schools, gas stations, churches, and government buildings. THEN the general public would have a greater interest in electric cars... For you historians, in New York, a man named Robert Moses was the builder of amazing highways in New York in the 1950s and 60s.... BEFORE there was a need for big highways. What happened? People began buying cars to use those highways... Point made...

DNAinaGoodWay · Jun 1, 2017

webb14leafs said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:

Philosophy? OK. How's this: The more range the better.

Given: I've lived 5 years with a 24 kWh car, have other cars, never taken the Leaf more than 200 miles in one trip. So I don't "need" more range.

But my next lease will be a 60 kWh car, and after that whatever is the most kWh car I can afford without over stretching. Why? I don't "need" to.

I have other needs. I need to think less about how much range I have vs how much range I need. I like to wander, not plan. Many times we've taken another car just because we couldn't predict how our trip would turn out. Done with that.

Click to expand...

Absolutely more range is better, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

The goal of auto manufacturers is to penetrate an uneasy market. There's no range that will do this if we don't improve our charging infrastructure.

There's no doubt that a 60kWhr car will have more utility, but without better charging, there's still a line that can't be crossed for most people. I drive 130 miles to Orlando about once a month or so. The 60kWh car would accomodate this, and I would be very happy about it. It wouldn't, however, work for my occasional trips to Georgia, or to see my sister in North Carolina, or to the Keys. These trips would only be reasonably possible if there were abundant and fast charging stations near the freeway/turnpike. This fact didn't keep me out of the EV market, but I think it does for some.

Well, they're already testing highway embedded charging systems. Maybe we'll leapfrog into that so you only need a smaller battery for local travel.

webb14leafs · Jun 1, 2017

powersurge said:
All of this debate about the NEED to increase range and what it takes for car makers to get "market penetration" of electric cars is very humorous to me... I feel, like a number of posters on this topic think that debating what the ideal electric car is.... Buying the car that fills your daily needs.

I don't care about anybody who poo poos the current Leafs because they may "need" to go on a 150, 200, or 300 mile trip. If that is really YOUR priority, DONT BUY AN EV... Even if car makers satisfied those requirements, you would find some guys that complain they need a car to cover a 400 or 500 mile trip!!!

The older I get, the more I find that you have to live your life for "what you need", and you will be happy, and.... that there is "No free lunch" (for you old timers that know what that means). For arguments sake, Sure, you could get a 100KWH battery that could do everything you want. BUT, you would pay dearly for that luxury, and that convenience would cost more than the car itself. Forget about replacing it when your car is 10 year old..

SO... IMVVVHO..... I am perfectly happy with my Current Leaf, I will love driving it every day I own it. I will be perfectly happy replacing the "small" battery some day (for an affordable "small battery" price). I would love to be driving My leaf for decades more, and have people say... "wow that is a Leaf, the first good EV!"

I do not care that my Leaf can't go 150 miles nonstop. I do not care that some people don't like that. ALSO, I do not care what the car companies "have to do" to increase EV car sales (I KNOW that they are not interested in even marketing electric cars, or they would have in the past 7 years of the Leaf)...

MY HOPEFUL WISH - What I would LOVE... If the federal and local governments really wanted, they would install charging stations in all public parking, malls, schools, gas stations, churches, and government buildings. THEN the general public would have a greater interest in electric cars... For you historians, in New York, a man named Robert Moses was the builder of amazing highways in New York in the 1950s and 60s.... BEFORE there was a need for big highways. What happened? People began buying cars to use those highways... Point made...

Not sure what thread you've been reading, but I haven't seen much poo-pooing. It's safe to say that most people who buy an EV do so, at least partially, because it results in cleaner air, and a cleaner environment. As such, we would like to see the industry succeed as quickly as possible.

I'm simply asking if improving the charging infrastructure would do more for the industry than producing cars with greater range. Some people agree, and some people are respectfully disagreeing based on their individual needs and experiences. Some are just illustrating my point by describing their frustrations with a lack of infrastructure.

In the end it looks like you agree with me, which makes your somewhat rude statements seem a bit odd. I agree with your hopeful wish.

Hopefully, my question becomes moot and the market becomes flooded with BOTH long-range EVs AND high speed chargers in the next 12-24 months.

IssacZachary · Jun 1, 2017

Would car manufacturers please make a BEV that has at least a 6,000 mile range so that I can go see my sister in Belize and not have to worry about finding charging stations along the way or down there. Sheesh! Get it right car manufacturers! :roll:

(PS. I was being sarcastic.)

I'm afraid everyone is going to have a different point of view on this.

I love my Leaf. I've done trips that are several hundred miles in it and am planning to do more.. I really don't care about having to stop at conveniently placed L2 stations. The L1 stops are a bit much and some of the L2 stations are in odd inconvenient locations around here. If L3 stations existed in my part of the world it would be even better! Perfect in my Leaf! I like taking my time. Even when I go visit my Mother-in-law over 600 miles away I like to take my time. I drive an hour and rest half an hour. To bad there aren't any CHAdeMO stations or even L2 stations between here and there.

I plan on keeping my Leaf for a long as possible. I'm not the kind of guy who has to buy the newest and the latest. I still have my first smartphone, which is only my second cellphone. And to tell you the truth I wish I still had my first cellphone, that sleek, beautiful little Nokia candybar. If it weren't for my Father-in-law, my wife and I would probably still be driving around in our first car that we bought 11 years ago. And only last year did I finally retire our first computer that we also had bought 11 years ago.

But most people want the latest and the greatest and the fastest and the most powerful. I'm not saying that all of this isn't better. But at what price? If I'm forking money through my nose for all this then what's the point? Isn't one of the reasons for buying an EV the economical aspect of it? If the battery costs the same as a new ICEV, then where are the savings?

Yes, I do see where having longer range would be better. I also see where actually having a charging infrastructure would be better. I also see where saving my time and money for more important things is definitely better.

DNAinaGoodWay said:
Well, they're already testing highway embedded charging systems. Maybe we'll leapfrog into that so you only need a smaller battery for local travel.

I like this idea. But I also liked the CHAdeMO idea and that never happened here and probably never will.

DNAinaGoodWay · Jun 1, 2017

The next few years will feature more stations as well as 200 mile range being the standard for a while. Except for Tesla, the station situation will continue as it has with only modest velocity. Some areas will always be better than others. Neither factor will make EVs mainstream. People are perfectly happy with their ICE vehicles and more range and stations won't make them switch. More model variety and lower prices will help, but that takes time. Gas price hikes would flip the market in a hurry, but that's not on the horizon right now. It's all about the money. So, slow, steady growth for now. Horses took decades to fade away too.

johnlocke · Jun 1, 2017

More chargers are on the way, Courtesy of VW and their Diesel fiasco. The court ordered consent decree requires that VW spend 15 Billion Dollars over the next few years for remediation of their diesel emissions problem. A large portion of it will be for level 3 charging stations.

IssacZachary · Jun 1, 2017

johnlocke said:
More chargers are on the way, Courtesy of VW and their Diesel fiasco. The court ordered consent decree requires that VW spend 15 Billion Dollars over the next few years for remediation of their diesel emissions problem. A large portion of it will be for level 3 charging stations.

Sorry if this is a thread derailer question, but I have to ask:

Is there any guarantee that those stations will have CHAdeMO? Or is CHAdeMO going to be phased out? And if so, is there an adapter to use other types of DCQC?

Cart Before The Horse??

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