Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

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TomT said:
Interesting since I've left mine for weeks at a time (unplugged) and never had an issue. When I had my two year battery report last month they also tested the 12 volt battery and it got the highest possible marks... Go figure.

DaveinOlyWA said:
i found that the only real risk is if leaving the car sit for extended periods of time. cold weather aggravates any lead acid batt so outside does compound it. there was one WA guy who parked his outside for 3½ days while at the ocean and temps were a bit colder than normal with lows in upper 20's, low 30's and his battery was completely dead. I think he said he measured his at like 7 volts. he jumped it and has had no lasting issues but he puts a lot of miles on his LEAF but also takes several trips a month. he has left his car sit for similar lengths several times without issue but thinking its simply mismanagement catching up.

like any battery chemistry, lead is affected by temperatures. it has to get pretty hot to make any significant difference but on the cold end, that is very reachable by most of the country including the relatively mild weather we get in the Pac NW
 
KJD said:
What is the amp hour rating of the new battery compared to the amp hour rating of the old battery ?

The Lithium battery is sized at HALF the AHr rating as the "stock" 12v battery that ships with the Leaf which puts it at around 20-22 AHrs. Remember, you really can't access anything below 50% in a lead acid, but (as we all know) you can theoretically access between 80-90% of the Lithium if necessary (protected by built-in BMS). My guess is you could run the radio (or lights, etc.) longer with this SMALLER Lithium battery than with the lead acid it replaced, but I'm not going to try it :cool:

I might take a voltage reading once-in-awhile, but I don't think I'm up for regular readings/monitoring. This battery typically sits between 12v-13v.
 
Is there a built in charger in the new lithium battery pack to accept the old lead acid battery charging profile? Or did you have to modify the original lead acid charging system for the new lithium?
 
Solangelist said:
Is there a built in charger in the new lithium battery pack to accept the old lead acid battery charging profile? Or did you have to modify the original lead acid charging system for the new lithium?

All of these "drop in" lead acid replacement batteries are engineered to accept the ICE charging profile, otherwise it would be too complicated for the average person to use. The difference between the good (read: expensive) and bad (read: cheap) Lithium replacements is usually built-in cell balancing and/or voltage min/max monitoring. The irony is the Leaf charging profile (very stable--and well controlled--DC charging) and maintenance "top off" checks every 5 days (with the ability to "quick charge") is ideally suited for a 12v Lithium starter battery, but they're just too expensive to put in every car.
 
For the record, the Rav4 EV Gen II has the same 12 volt issues. I've parked mine for 3 weeks, and left it on a 12 volt tender.

I also left the main traction battery unplugged as an experiment. That experiment didn't start out well when I left the daily morning heater timer on.

Fortunately, I could remotely turn it off.
 
My 2011 Leaf has been stored in my garage, unplugged, with the main traction battery @ 3 bars, for over 30 days now. When I get home next week, I expect to be able to jump in, power up, and drive off.

This is the longest I've ever gone without driving it. So...we'll see.
 
Ok, so this thread is almost 4 years old. The batteries being posted about then were way too heavy and way too expensive. There is no need for a large AGM or lithium battery designed to start an ICE car.

What we need is an exceptionally lightweight battery like this motorcycle battery:
https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/LFX14L2-BS12.html#WayPointTechSpecs

2lbs, $145. That's more like it.
 
Yes, any 4 series LiFePO4 battery is likely to do the job. I would even consider an RC pack such as: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-flightmax-8400mah-4s2p-30c-lifepo4-pack.html which would require adapters to connect to the car top post connections. The motorcycle version is probably easier to adapt to the car.
 
Noticed a couple of posts from a few months ago, but it seems as though questions (and confusion) hasn't changed.
Yes, you can put a smaller/lower capacity version than what I used, but I wouldn't go much lower than 10AHr (I've tried it).
As for "cheaper" 12v starter batteries, you get what you pay for: I wouldn't put anything in my Leaf that doesn't have some sort of BMS for cell-balancing, especially given the charging profile.
BTW, my LiFePO4 battery (link updated in first post) is still going strong after almost 4 years!
 
honest question. what are the benefits. I have put 60,000 miles on my leaf in the last 3 years and have never touched the led cell under the hood. I assume its the original battery from 2012.

I typically get 10+ years on a led cell before they need replacing unless they are abused (allowed to fully discharge for long periods or freeze in a discharged state (kills them fast) in the smaller cars I typically never replace them at all.

in my geo metro for example the battery is 15 years old best I can figure starts right up every time (btw I tried the battery in a full size car. click click click won't even crank so I guess it depends on what car its in.

just curious what benefits there are?
 
nerys said:
honest question. what are the benefits. I have put 60,000 miles on my leaf in the last 3 years and have never touched the led cell under the hood. I assume its the original battery from 2012.

I typically get 10+ years on a led cell before they need replacing unless they are abused (allowed to fully discharge for long periods or freeze in a discharged state (kills them fast) in the smaller cars I typically never replace them at all.

in my geo metro for example the battery is 15 years old best I can figure starts right up every time (btw I tried the battery in a full size car. click click click won't even crank so I guess it depends on what car its in.

just curious what benefits there are?

Don't know where you live (not in your profile), but I've never known anyone anywhere who's 12v starter battery lasted 10 years.
In the same climates that tend to "kill" the Leaf battery packs, we're lucky to get 3-4 years out of a "normal" lead acid battery.
The benefit is: I don't have to worry about a dead 12v battery anymore...including all the things that go wrong in a Leaf with a flaky/low 12v battery.
 
huh. very odd to me. I am not joking when I say I get 10+ years out of them.

hell I had the same battery in my jeep for 15+ years over 300,000 miles and the only reason I replaced it is I left it "freeze" one winter when it was discharged (kills them right fast)

in all my other cars again I have "never once" had to replace the lead for "age failure" it has always without exception been abuse on my part (improper storage winter freeze death except one where It was dropped. that hurt. $300 battery I really wanted to murder my brother over that one)

Chris
 
Most lead/acid batteries typically last 1-5 years, not 10-15 years for automotive applications. If you are getting 10-15 years, or even 20-30 years, that doesn't change the fact that lead / acid batteries only last 1-5 years on average (hence what the battery warranties tend to be).

Like one of the above posters, I prefer not to have 12 volt battery issues, so I tend to take good care of the battery that I have, and only buy the "best" battery for the intended application.

My current 12 volt lithium battery:

https://www.valence.com/products/standard-modules/rt-modules/
 
ahhh most of mine have a 60 month replacement (if I buy new) though most either came with the car or I got used.

I have a feeling it comes down to how I use them.

for example if I take the battery out of my metro and put it in say the minivan. it just clicks. as if its a bad battery.

so it might just be that most of my vehicles are such a "tiny load" to the battery and I tend to oversize when I can that I am just not "pushing" them very hard. hence the long lifespans.

I am honestly not messing with you when I say I have never replaced a battery in less than 10 years if it was not abused and that is conservative. ie the time span is too long to be accurate. I guess I am just an edge case scenario and not "normal" usage.

somehow I just don't see the 12v batt in my leaf "EVER" dying since it really only needs to provide a couple of amps at most to run small things when the traction pack is off (remote blinking the lights interior lights (LED) etc..
 
nerys said:
honest question. what are the benefits. I have put 60,000 miles on my leaf in the last 3 years and have never touched the led cell under the hood. I assume its the original battery from 2012.

I typically get 10+ years on a led cell before they need replacing unless they are abused (allowed to fully discharge for long periods or freeze in a discharged state (kills them fast) in the smaller cars I typically never replace them at all.

in my geo metro for example the battery is 15 years old best I can figure starts right up every time (btw I tried the battery in a full size car. click click click won't even crank so I guess it depends on what car its in.

just curious what benefits there are?


how come you have chosen to not reveal your location?
 
How come you are curious about my location am I supposed to announce where I am every time I post?

As it happens I'm in southeast Pennsylvania Levittown
 
nerys said:
How come you are curious about my location am I supposed to announce where I am every time I post?

As it happens I'm in southeast Pennsylvania Levittown

If you want. You might want to investigate other simpler options. The reality is that your location plays a huge part in how batteries work... all batteries.
 
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