Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

There have been several reports here Nissan came to their senses and now is willing to share the cost of a replacement for those who are just out warranty, I'd pursue that route before you're too far into out of warranty.

drees said:

Dropped to 7 capacity bars over the weekend.

39.29 Ah, 38.36 Hx, 169 GIDs / 139 GIDs 100/80%

About 2 weeks shy of 6 years of ownership and 61.5k miles - this last bar took about 9.5 months and a bit more than 8k miles.

Range at an indicated 4.0 mi/kWh is in around 36-38 miles to LBW and 44-46 miles to VLBW.

At this rate, losing about 0.5 Ah/month or 6 Ah/year or 2 kWh/year,...

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Doing some math here:

Total loss of Ah capacity: 27 Ah
Average yearly loss of capacity over six years: 4.5 Ah/year

If you are currently losing 6 Ah/year, then your overall capacity losses are certainly accelerating.

I agree with others: You should give another go at getting Nissan to help out with a new battery. Perhaps you could contact one of the many VPs you met as a CAB member and ask if they could help out since you helped them out. Just a thought...

RegGuheert said:

If you are currently losing 6 Ah/year, then your overall capacity losses are certainly accelerating.

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Yes, see the attached chart which shows an acceleration the last couple years - I attribute the acceleration to an increase in commute miles and increase in charging to 100% instead of 80% in addition to deeper discharges.



2011-2013 my commute was shorter - about 22 miles. You can see the blip in 2013 caused by the P3227 update. In 2014 I worked from until the fall and then commute increased to 30 miles. Started off 2015 charging 80% most of the time, that gradually increased to now where I only charge to 80% one day a week when I know I don't need the range, primarily just to get the GID number. It appears that either rate of capacity loss is increasing, or a combination of that and more time at 100% SOC is causing the rate of capacity loss. With the battery in it's current state, the lack of regen combined with tires that don't appear to be all that good in the rolling resistance department, charging to 80% gets me around 26 miles to LBW.

RegGuheert said:

I agree with others: You should give another go at getting Nissan to help out with a new battery. Perhaps you could contact one of the many VPs you met as a CAB member and ask if they could help out since you helped them out. Just a thought...

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I did that Monday. They say that it's a one-time process and they don't ever re-open the discussion for re-analysis. Once you open a case for a particular problem and your request for assistance is denied, they will never reconsider. There is no way to escalate it through the EV-hotline. The dealer tells me a similar story - there's nothing they can do to help - my only option for out-of-warranty assistance is to go to Nissan. Nonetheless, I'm going to call another time tomorrow now that I've had another 5-star battery test (my 6th
5-star report!)

I have one good contact from LAB - will try reaching out and seeing what happens should my phone calls fail to make progress tomorrow.

didn't have my phone with the leaf app on it this morning, but my 5.3yr old 2012 dropped capacity bar #12 this morning. ~31k miles.

2011 SL, lost 3rd bar on 6/3/17 at 39,018 mi, 47.45 Ah, 72% SOH, 51.72 Hx. Occurred after charging to 100% and letting it sit for a few hours due to unexpected change in drive time. Same thing happened with the 2nd bar. I was hoping to make it through the summer or closer to my 6 yr anniversary. Given my degradation, I'm expecting the 4th bar to drop next summer, around my 7th yr anniversary. I'm losing about a bar per year, so this definitely makes the car useless more quickly than I had expected. I wonder what my chances will be next year for getting new battery for less than the ridiculous $5500 price?

We lost our 3rd capacity bar sometime in april. It's amazing a month after the warranty ended. Wouldn't be supprised if nissan programed the computer to make that happen.
Result of all the deception and problems Nissan caused this will be the last Nissan I will purchase, lease etc.
If the Hundai Ionic EV was avilable in Connecticut I would be leasing it now.

Martytdi said:

We lost our 3rd capacity bar sometime in april. It's amazing a month after the warranty ended. Wouldn't be supprised if nissan programed the computer to make that happen.

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No on the latter. Plenty of folks have lost 4 or more bars before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty expired. They need to be in hotter climates, of course.

I just hit 8 bars this morning (June 20, 2017). 58,760 miles. I'm the second owner so I had to call the dealership to find out the warranty start date: June 16, 2012. So 5 years and 4 days.

Sooo...

1) Is Nissan usually dickish about those 4 days?

2) I called 4 dealerships and not one of the service advisers I spoke to had heard of the Andy Palmer Dec 27 2012 press release promising replacements if the battery drops below 9 bars in 5 years / 60,000 miles. Blank stares all around. Is that an actual thing?

-- Rich --

EDIT: Changed # to 877: Call 1-877-NOGASEV and plead your case. Give them a sob story about being the 2nd owner, not able to make your commute, didn't know what you were getting into, vehicle isn't as advertised, etc. Good luck. There have been cases near the line where Nissan has relented.

Reddy said:

Call 1-800-NOGASEV and plead your case. Give them a sob story about being the 2nd owner, not able to make your commute, didn't know what you were getting into, vehicle isn't as advertised, etc. Good luck. There have been cases near the line where Nissan has relented.

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1-877-NOGASEV you mean. 1-800-NOGASEV is a spam squatter.

Per 1-877-NO-GAS-EV, the 60,000 mile/5 year thing is as a result of a class action lawsuit. They're pretty strict about it. So no.

richfife said:

Reddy said:

Call 1-800-NOGASEV and plead your case. Give them a sob story about being the 2nd owner, not able to make your commute, didn't know what you were getting into, vehicle isn't as advertised, etc. Good luck. There have been cases near the line where Nissan has relented.

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1-877-NOGASEV you mean. 1-800-NOGASEV is a spam squatter.

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Oops, yes. Here's their contact info link: https://www.nissanusa.com/apps/contactus

Just noticed this morning that our 2011 LEAF dropped to nine capacity bars. Not even keeping it in the relative cool of our mountain range is enough to staunch the bleeding! At this rate, though, it'll probably take another couple of years or so to drop to 8/12 bars. We intend to keep using it locally as long as it's drivable...

richfife said:

I just hit 8 bars this morning (June 20, 2017). 58,760 miles. I'm the second owner so I had to call the dealership to find out the warranty start date: June 16, 2012. So 5 years and 4 days.

Sooo...

1) Is Nissan usually dickish about those 4 days?

2) I called 4 dealerships and not one of the service advisers I spoke to had heard of the Andy Palmer Dec 27 2012 press release promising replacements if the battery drops below 9 bars in 5 years / 60,000 miles. Blank stares all around. Is that an actual thing?

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#1: They have been. It's YMMV. I haven't had time or patience to read all of this guy's rant: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21962. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20725 had to fight over 2 miles, but he finally prevailed.

It does sound like Nissan's been more willing lately to cover part of the cost.

#2: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 was from June 2013. And yes, the 5 years/60K miles, whichever comes first was a result of the Klee class action settlement. Nissan's not legally obligated to provide any sort of free HV battery replacement after either has passed.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694 doesn't list the date you mention either with respect to a capacity warranty.

edit: Whoops, I guess there was some some discussion of a capacity warranty around/prior to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11057. Search that thread for warranty.

Yep, I feel the same!

Martytdi said:

Result of all the deception and problems Nissan caused this will be the last Nissan I will purchase, lease etc.

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2016 SV 7293 miles lost first bar, seems early to me based on other posts. 11/15 manufacture, 10/16 lease start for me, so do not know what the dealership did to the vehicle here in Orlando, FL between those two dates. Fortunately a leased car, so there is an end in sight.

oleviking said:

2016 SV 7293 miles lost first bar, seems early to me based on other posts. 11/15 manufacture, 10/16 lease start for me, so do not know what the dealership did to the vehicle here in Orlando, FL between those two dates. Fortunately a leased car, so there is an end in sight.

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Your post belongs in thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606.

This thread's only for '11 and '12 Leafs.

cwerdna said:

Martytdi said:

We lost our 3rd capacity bar sometime in april. It's amazing a month after the warranty ended. Wouldn't be supprised if nissan programed the computer to make that happen.

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No on the latter. Plenty of folks have lost 4 or more bars before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty expired. They need to be in hotter climates, of course.

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That is a pretty definite answer to a question I think is still open for debate. It is not logical proof that because "plenty of folks" have collected on the warranty that Nissan did not reprogram the computer. In fact there is suspicion that Nissan did just that.

I agree that I have no proof to the contrary specifically in the case of Nissan. However, the P3227 update, which is REQUIRED for warranty validation under the Klee settlement, seems extremely suspicious.

It is possible for somebody to continue without the P3227 update, and I believe some here have done that. So, theoretically, a person could have gone to 59999 in a day under 5 years without the P3227 update, and then gone to the dealer for the required update. The warranty couldn't be denied for not having the update when it came out.

I think there is complete consensus that the P3227 update does, without changing the underlying true state of the battery, alter the capacity bar display calculations and the underlying battery capacity data itself. To see proof of this, you've only got to go one page prior and look at drees' 2013 LEAF Ah data. The P3227 update "turned back the clock" for the battery degradation by about a year (if I'm reading the chart correctly), and although it apparently came back into better accuracy within a few weeks, there is no proof that going forward the data wasn't calculated slightly higher than prior to the update. Or that the capacity bars displayed weren't reprogrammed to a different level of percentage than prior. Or that the fourth capacity bar wouldn't have dropped that day, week, or month, earlier, when the warranty was still in effect.

The truly sad part is that even proving my theory would not, in any way, impact Nissan legally under the Klee settlement. The lawyers agreed that the warranty basis was simply capacity bars displayed. It has been agreed that 63% remaining capacity, as some have displayed upon dropping the fourth bar, is "approximately 70%" as spelled out in the settlement. And the judge, who may have been truly interested in justice, may have been fooled into signing off on this truly unfair settlement. The fact that a $6000 obligation for Nissan disappears one mile after 60K, or one day after 5 years, seems nothing less than obnoxiously unfair to those who have and are losing out.

Is it pure cynicism on my part to doubt Nissan just because other automakers have been caught cheating in order to increase their profits, or decrease their obligations? Or that, as I've been told, on occasion auto salesmen do not tell the truth to customers? I would be shocked, shocked to find proof that Nissan has surreptitiously altered these calculations solely to decrease warranty claims and increase their financial bottom line.

2012 Leaf SL - (14JAN13 in service date)

Lost Bar 9 - 09JUL17 - ODO= 49,072 - AH 42.92 - SOH 65% - HX 44.3% - QC 33 - L1/L2 2365
Lost Bar 10 - 18AUG16 - ODO= 35,404 - AH 47.44 - SOH 72% - HX 51.71% - QC 16 - L1/L2 1715

Headed to dealer next week to claim warranty battery replacement.

I'm not sure this is the correct place to post, but perhaps someone can give me some advice. We are looking for a used Leaf, and the most tempting option locally is a 1st gen 2011 model with its original battery, but v low mileage (15k). I'm really struggling to know whether to be wary of buying an older vehicle even though its mileage is so low. My partner will be using it for a commute 25miles each way, with likely no option to charge at work, so will begin to be quite vulnerable to running out of juice once the battery capacity starts to drop off. The question is, should we expect this to happen very soon due to the age of the battery, or should it last a good few years, since it has done so little driving thus far?

Any opinions much appreciated!