Will a leaf work for me? Range in pouring rain?

jjeff said:

powersurge said:

As in any conversation, the important part is being able to understand each other. Your unsolicited correcting of people on the terms and formulas they use is the equivalent of correcting another person's grammar when you are speaking to someone in person... That would be crude and insensitive.. So consider that you are doing the same thing here, and it may not be welcome, starting with me...

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Having witnessed the recent deterioration in language in newscasts ("Hillary Clinton on campaign trail!" "Fire burns out of control, one person was killed!") I have no trouble correcting people speaking in a professional capacity. I likewise have no problem with correcting people who use the wrong technical terms in a forum meant to be a place where people help each other with technical issues. If everyone who drives an EV starts thinking that the thing they plug into the car's charge port is a "charger," then they are going to have trouble understanding when someone talks to them about the actual charger onboard. If it hurts your feelings that people are trying to get you to convey the correct idea instead of the one easiest to spew via a phone, then perhaps you should primarily be reading here, not writing. Or, probably more accurately, talking into your phone and dumping the result here.

powersurge said:

You are obviously a hardcore enthusiast in this area. I think you need to accept that not everyone will be as knowledgeable as you.

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Yes on both of these, but correcting misinformation and/or bad habits is a step towards that other person knowing and understanding more, besides reducing the chances they will confuse others and/or give them bad info.

powersurge said:

As in any conversation, the important part is being able to understand each other. Your unsolicited correcting of people on the terms and formulas they use is the equivalent of correcting another person's grammar when you are speaking to someone in person... That would be crude and insensitive.. So consider that you are doing the same thing here, and it may not be welcome, starting with me...

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While I don't usually correct people's grammar in person, if they get kW vs. kWh mixed up while in conversation, I do and will always continue to do so. Don't like it? Tough luck.

A pet peeve of mine is spread of misinformation and confusing information. Enthusiasts should be getting this right and thus passing on correct info to non-enthusiasts/potential EV/PHEV buyers/drivers.

dm33 said:

Mixing up kwh and kw or kw/h is fundamental to what you're talking about. It could be considered unfortunate that the terms look similar but what they relate to is enormously different and should be corrected when used incorrectly. No one would let slide equivalent mis-statements of terms related to gasoline vehicles, no reason to think it should be ok here. Very easy to come up with a non-sensical statement which says nothing, or worse can be interpreted incorrectly and cause some serious consequence.

No one would say how many miles per gallon it takes to go to work, or advertise that a car gets 30 gallons fuel efficiency, or that you're going to fill up at a rate of 30 gallons.

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Maybe someone could create a permanent post to go in the Announcements Section that covers some of the basics? Things like the difference between EVSE and charger, and the proper use of Kw and Kwh.

baustin said:

Maybe someone could create a permanent post to go in the Announcements Section that covers some of the basics? Things like the difference between EVSE and charger, and the proper use of Kw and Kwh.

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Yes, FAQs are older than the Web, yet this site seems to abhor them. Instead, we get to answer the same questions 10 or 20 times a month, while the site's "FAQ" just obsessively lists thirty or forty questions about the site itself that few people ask.

baustin said:

Maybe someone could create a permanent post to go in the Announcements Section that covers some of the basics? Things like the difference between EVSE and charger, and the proper use of Kw and Kwh.

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What, you don't like every new thread to degrade into the same discussions?

It's usually the same people with the same opinions, too.

GetOffYourGas said:

baustin said:

Maybe someone could create a permanent post to go in the Announcements Section that covers some of the basics? Things like the difference between EVSE and charger, and the proper use of Kw and Kwh.

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What, you don't like every new thread to degrade into the same discussions?

It's usually the same people with the same opinions, too.

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Good point....

I will back off of my posting my personal feelings on how some members respond to other members' posts.....

So its every man for themselves.

Im back, cant get the idea out of my head about buying a $6K Leaf- I switched offices now my total commute is only 55 miles, but 40 of that is @ 70MPH in hilly terrain- think its a go???

Not without workplace charging of some sort. You'd make it some days, but not on others.

@joem - where are you finding used Leafs for $6K? Sounds too good to be true - are these 2011/2012 Leafs with 9 or 10 capacity bars left? If so, there's no way you are going to do your commute without a charge somewhere along the way.

Even if you can find a 2014 Leaf with a really healthy 24 kWh battery (over 90% SOH), then you might be OK for a couple of years, but it really depends on your definition of "hilly". Pouring rain really does impact range too. Not looking too good...

Have a look at this range chart, which assumes a slightly degraded battery and the expected range at various speeds, on flat roads, with no AC/heat:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wczgxhs5e91i7og/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G93.pdf?dl=0

I think you can see that, if there's any significant elevation gain, you're not going to make it - or at best, you'll be on VLBW. Perhaps you could talk a Portland dealership into letting you do an extended test drive, in which case try driving your commute when starting with 100% SOC and see how far you get until you hit LBW. At best, you'd get another 15 miles beyond that.

I noticed you live in OR, where politicians just passed new legislation to provide up to a $2500 rebate on a new EV. If you can also get the federal rebate, that's $10K off of a new 2017 Leaf with a 30 kWh pack. That extra 25% range will make all the difference for your situation. Something to consider...

yup, craigslist is full of 2011-2013 lease return's for as low as $5K with good low mile ones around 6K, ill hold off until the 2018 hits the market, maybe some with 30 kw batt's will be selling at that time most forums don't allow links, but a simple search in Portland will show you this "2012 Nissan Leaf SL premium package - $6200"

Nice price, but a 2012 Leaf isn't going to do your commute unless it has a replacement battery. Non-starter, unless you change jobs to reduce your commute.

By waiting, you might miss out on the $7500 federal EV rebate. If I lived in OR, I would by a new 2017 Leaf SV if I could get it for under $15k. I would definitely value an extra 25% range.

Another option would be a Hyundai Ioniq, but I suspect you'd pay thousands more than for a Leaf.

joem said:

yup, craigslist is full of 2011-2013 lease return's for as low as $5K with good low mile ones around 6K, ill hold off until the 2018 hits the market, maybe some with 30 kw batt's will be selling at that time most forums don't allow links, but a simple search in Portland will show you this "2012 Nissan Leaf SL premium package - $6200"

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This is exactly what I intend to do here in the UK, I've been saving sporadically for just over two years now for a Leaf & another 6/8 months will get me the best deal on a later model Gen 1 Leaf when people will jump for the 2018 model.

Good luck in your quest.

joem said:

I want to buy a leaf but I'm worried that I'm just outside its range. My commute is 80 miles rt @ 70MPH from zip code 97049 to 97216 for a visual on google. Elevation change of 1,000' via 2 4% hills and wintertime conditions almost always with temperatures in the 40F range and pouring rain- does the leaf kick in the AC pump when the defrosters are turned on? I would simply blow cold air on the window to de-fog. I also have no chance of charging at work Most leaf owners tell me zero chance of making it home but I want to check in here before looking at a plug in hybrid.
Thanks guys! Joe

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slow it down a bit, you will be fine but eventually like all packs your range will degrade. Lease for now.