Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

OrientExpress said:

Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs

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This is surprising. There must be an unusual amount of driver/passenger leg room volume (under the dash) in the Bolt because there's no way it has more rear passenger and cargo volume than the Leaf.

webb14leafs said:

OrientExpress said:

Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs

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This is surprising. There must be an unusual amount of driver/passenger leg room volume (under the dash) in the Bolt because there's no way it has more rear passenger and cargo volume than the Leaf.

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You are correct. If you look at the links you quoted, you see the following:

Leaf:
Interior Passenger Volume: 92.4 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume: 23.6 cu.ft.
Total Interior Volume: 116.0 cu.ft.

Bolt:
Interior Passenger Volume: 95.0 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume: 16.9 cu.ft.
Total Interior Volume: 111.9 cu.ft.

As you can see, the LEAF has approximately 40% more cargo volume than the Bolt.

GRA said:

Goes to show that its a single measure, more useful for calculating passenger space (since passengers vary little in their shape, and tend to need height as much as width and length) than cargo space, which varies considerably depending on what needs to be carried. For suitcases or many boxes volume is a good measure. For long but flat cargo, length, width or area is more important. Just depends on your needs or priorities.

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But humans are not cargo. If you make a mould of a large person and ask people to sit in it (great leg, shoulder, hip room) - they'll still feel claustrophobic. Bolt could be something engineered to make numbers look good on paper. The feeling when you sit is entirely different.

jlv said:

NeilBlanchard said:

The Bolt EV has MORE interior volume than a Tesla Model S.

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Do you have figures to back that up? I've sat in a Bolt (there are 4 or 5 here at work now) and I can't imagine anyway that it had more volume that the Model S, passenger or cargo. Certainly the full size futon frame+mattress I put in my Model S last week would not have fit in a Bolt.

The best comparison I find is from MotorTrend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-vs-2016-tesla-model-s-60/

Although the Tesla’s passenger cabin is ever so slightly smaller than the Bolt’s, its front and rear trunks do give it a 9-cubic-foot advantage in cargo capacity.

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Yes - the Bolt EV has 94.4 cu ft and the Model S is 94 cu ft. Keep in mind the Model S is 196" long, and the Bolt EV is 164" long - that is 32" difference; over 16% longer.

NeilBlanchard said:

Yes - the Bolt EV has 94.4 cu ft and the Model S is 94 cu ft. Keep in mind the Model S is 196" long, and the Bolt EV is 164" long - that is 32" difference; over 16% longer.

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I would guess that a sizeable fraction of that Model S length is in front, given the long front end. Especially compared to the Bolt (or LEAF 1).

evnow said:

GRA said:

Goes to show that its a single measure, more useful for calculating passenger space (since passengers vary little in their shape, and tend to need height as much as width and length) than cargo space, which varies considerably depending on what needs to be carried. For suitcases or many boxes volume is a good measure. For long but flat cargo, length, width or area is more important. Just depends on your needs or priorities.

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But humans are not cargo. If you make a mould of a large person and ask people to sit in it (great leg, shoulder, hip room) - they'll still feel claustrophobic. Bolt could be something engineered to make numbers look good on paper. The feeling when you sit is entirely different.

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Passengers are a type of cargo, of a particular shape and size but able to complain. As to how comfortable the Bolt is for passengers, that will vary depending on the individual, but most reviews I've read indicate more than adequate room for four adults, or even five for short trips. I think the Bolt's just about ideally proportioned for urban car/ride-sharing, especially once full autonomy arrives (and they straighten out the seat issue). For some practical comparisons of passenger and cargo space:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...bolt-ev-interior-review-car-and-driver-page-5

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...pace-and-storage-review-car-and-driver-page-7

evnow said:

OrientExpress said:

Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs

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Goes to show how useless of a number this is.

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Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.

GetOffYourGas said:

evnow said:

OrientExpress said:

Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs

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Goes to show how useless of a number this is.

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Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.

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The height certainly adds useful headroom compared to say the Volt or Prime, especially in the back seat - see the C&D specs I linked to. The Bolt measures up well to its 2WD "crossover" (actually just tall hatch) competition, the Soul and C-Max. In a Volt you probably don't want to put anyone over about 5'9" back there, depending on their torso to inseam ratio. Going high rather than long is best for urban environments as it makes finding a space and then parallel parking easier, and also makes loading/unloading cargo in angle-parking spaces safer. There are aero drawbacks at freeway speeds (just as there are with any CUV/SUV), but the Bolt's primary purpose isn't as a road trip car.

GRA said:

The height certainly adds useful headroom compared to say the Volt or Prime, especially in the back seat

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Purely subjective. But fine. There are some use cases where it might be useful.

GRA said:

Going high rather than long is best for urban environments as it makes finding a space and then parallel parking easier, and also makes loading/unloading cargo in angle-parking spaces safer.

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Yes, this much is true. I just get caught in my own disappointment because I don't need an urban car because I don't live or often travel in an urban environment. When I do, the C-Max is a good fit for the same reasons you mention. But more often, my use case is suburban, rural, or highway travel.

GetOffYourGas said:

evnow said:

OrientExpress said:

Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs

Click to expand...

Goes to show how useless of a number this is.

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Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.

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What does height have to do with aerodynamics? Frontal area is frontal area - the air doesn't "care" what proportions it is.

Height is very useful to tall people. Sitting up higher yields more legroom. And having enough headroom is not easy. Many cars are simply too short for tall people to fit in.

My perception of the Model S is the interior space (mostly drivers seat) seems cramped compared to the Bolt.
It would appear GM has an edge on ergonomics. Model S seems huge outside and small outside. Bolt is opposite.
JMHO

It would appear GM has an edge on ergonomics.

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Are you referring to the sharp seat edges that cut into so many people's bodies? ;-)

NeilBlanchard said:

What does height have to do with aerodynamics? Frontal area is frontal area

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You do realize that you answered your own question, right Neil? If the Bolt was the same width but not as tall, it would have a smaller frontal area. Of course, a shorter, wider car could have the same frontal area, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

smkettner said:

My perception of the Model S is the interior space (mostly drivers seat) seems cramped compared to the Bolt.
It would appear GM has an edge on ergonomics. Model S seems huge outside and small outside. Bolt is opposite.
JMHO

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Having driven 8000+ miles in my Model S, the last thing I would call the interior space (driver's seat or otherwise) is "cramped". When the drivers seat is adjusted for me, not only do I feel like I have lots of space, but the legroom behind me is enormous (2'+ easily). I've often faulted Tesla for designing cars for adult males over 6' tall; I'm 5'6' and my wife is 5'0' and we feel the car's interior is huge.

Having ridden in a Bolt for 15 minutes (only in the front passenger seat), the one thing I would call it is "cramped". I've not driven it nor checked out the rear leg room, but the passenger space does not seem to be anywhere as spacious as the S.

GetOffYourGas said:

NeilBlanchard said:

What does height have to do with aerodynamics? Frontal area is frontal area

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You do realize that you answered your own question, right Neil? If the Bolt was the same width but not as tall, it would have a smaller frontal area. Of course, a shorter, wider car could have the same frontal area, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

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You stated that height is a problem. That is not accurate - frontal area is the problem. A car that is closer to square (taller and narrower) can have the same frontal area as a wide low car. So, height all by itself has no bearing.

The backseat of the Model S is less comfortable than the backseat of the Bolt EV. I'm 6'-4" and I hit my head in the back of the Model S, and I fit very well in the backseat of the Bolt EV.

The front seat of the Bolt EV is limited only by the edge of the dash around the screen - it has more front seat room than any other EV, except the i3. The Model S is quite low, and that makes entry and exit awkward. The center console and the screen limit the leg room, making it less comfortable than the Bolt EV.

NeilBlanchard said:

GetOffYourGas said:

NeilBlanchard said:

What does height have to do with aerodynamics? Frontal area is frontal area

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You do realize that you answered your own question, right Neil? If the Bolt was the same width but not as tall, it would have a smaller frontal area. Of course, a shorter, wider car could have the same frontal area, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

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You stated that height is a problem. That is not accurate - frontal area is the problem. A car that is closer to square (taller and narrower) can have the same frontal area as a wide low car. So, height all by itself has no bearing.

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You read more into my post than was written or implied. You are correct that frontal area is the problem, not height by itself. And a shorter Bolt, all else the same, would have less area. It would "feel" less spacious, while still offering the same functionality.

Of course, you could twist my word reductio ad absurdum and say that a 3-foot-tall Bolt wouldn't fit any human, but that's not what I'm saying either.

GetOffYourGas said:

GRA said:

The height certainly adds useful headroom compared to say the Volt or Prime, especially in the back seat

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Purely subjective. But fine. There are some use cases where it might be useful.

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I wouldn't say it's subjective, merely varies with the human it has to fit. I've sat in the back seat of the Volt 2, and in order to keep the top of my head from touching anything I have to lean it back a bit so it's under the hatch glass (I'm 6'0" with a 34" inseam, i.e. all legs, short torso). I wouldn't want to be back there in a crash, especially a rollover. I haven't sat in a Bolt yet, but I don't anticipate any headroom issues with it, and probably no leg-room ones either.

GetOffYourGas said:

GRA said:

Going high rather than long is best for urban environments as it makes finding a space and then parallel parking easier, and also makes loading/unloading cargo in angle-parking spaces safer.

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Yes, this much is true. I just get caught in my own disappointment because I don't need an urban car because I don't live or often travel in an urban environment. When I do, the C-Max is a good fit for the same reasons you mention. But more often, my use case is suburban, rural, or highway travel.

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Mine too, so lower and a bit longer would be preferable for me as well. The Bolt's 164"L x 70"W x 63"H. My Forester's 175"L x 68"W x 65"H, and while I expect the Bolt has more pax space, most of the Forester's extra length is behind the rear seats, for cargo. I don't want a car that's more than 180" long or with a lot of overhang, as it can make it difficult to turn around on the 1+ lane dirt roads with minimal or no shoulders I'm sometimes on when driving to trailheads, as they get blocked or washed out a lot more often than a paved road would be - narrow width is also advantageous to avoid scraping from greenery or when two opposing cars need to pass. Having to back significant distances to a turnout is something to be avoided.

NeilBlanchard said:

The backseat of the Model S is less comfortable than the backseat of the Bolt EV. I'm 6'-4" and I hit my head in the back of the Model S, and I fit very well in the backseat of the Bolt EV.

The front seat of the Bolt EV is limited only by the edge of the dash around the screen - it has more front seat room than any other EV, except the i3. The Model S is quite low, and that makes entry and exit awkward. The center console and the screen limit the leg room, making it less comfortable than the Bolt EV.

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Are you sure you're talking about the right cars? Did you sit in a Lincoln Navigator and believe the dealer when he told you it was a Chevy Bolt?

I've sat in both cars. I'm 6'2" with a 34 inch inseam. There's absolutely no way I could sit in the back seat of a Bolt - for any length of drive, under any circumstances. I'll admit Chevy nailed it on the front seat as far as leg room, but they missed the mark on butt room. I have a 32 inch waist, and the seat is uncomfortable. I say this not as a "hater". I'll still consider buying a Bolt once they hit the used market. I'll get used to the front seat, and my kids will fit just fine in the back seats.

The Model S is just plenty big. It's a full size sedan.

It sounds as absurd as saying that a Toyota Yaris is more roomy and comfortable than a Toyota Avalon. No way.

webb14leafs said:

NeilBlanchard said:

The backseat of the Model S is less comfortable than the backseat of the Bolt EV. I'm 6'-4" and I hit my head in the back of the Model S, and I fit very well in the backseat of the Bolt EV.

The front seat of the Bolt EV is limited only by the edge of the dash around the screen - it has more front seat room than any other EV, except the i3. The Model S is quite low, and that makes entry and exit awkward. The center console and the screen limit the leg room, making it less comfortable than the Bolt EV.

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Are you sure you're talking about the right cars? Did you sit in a Lincoln Navigator and believe the dealer when he told you it was a Chevy Bolt?

I've sat in both cars. I'm 6'2" with a 34 inch inseam. There's absolutely no way I could sit in the back seat of a Bolt - for any length of drive, under any circumstances. I'll admit Chevy nailed it on the front seat as far as leg room, but they missed the mark on butt room. I have a 32 inch waist, and the seat is uncomfortable. I say this not as a "hater". I'll still consider buying a Bolt once they hit the used market. I'll get used to the front seat, and my kids will fit just fine in the back seats.

The Model S is just plenty big. It's a full size sedan.

It sounds as absurd as saying that a Toyota Yaris is more roomy and comfortable than a Toyota Avalon. No way.

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My family will be buying a Bolt EV in about a month. I am 6'-4" 227 pounds 36" inseam, and my son is 6'-6" about 250 pounds and also 36" inseam. My brother is almost 6'-7" about 265 pounds, and a 38" inseam - and ALL THREE of us fit at the same time in any seat in the Bolt EV. And yes, a fourth person could also fit.

My spouse has knee problems, and she is very comfortable in the Bolt. The backseat of the Leaf is quite uncomfortable for us, because the seat is too low to the floor. We fit much better in our e-Golf.