Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

I know a retired person who needs a transportation car in the Los Angeles area to get groceries, visit the doctor and do various errands within a 20 mile range from home. They only have an 110V outlet to charge with and will not be able to afford getting a 220V outlet installed and then buying a 220V ESE.
I'm thinking a 2013 Leaf might be a good car for her, otherwise a 2011-2012 if she can't come up with enough money for even a bargain priced 2013. She cannot get financing.

If the car has a degraded battery showing less than 50 miles range, will it charge quickly to that range or will it take as long as charging a new battery to max capacity, but still only get this low range?

What kind of pricing in the LA area should we expect for a 2013 Leaf with typical mileage for that age? How about a 2012?

I don't think she will be able to deal with using public charging. If the car says it has 50 miles range, will it be safe to drive it 20 miles out from home and back (40 mile round trip) using the A/C or heat?

I was also checking other used cars with under 100K miles under $7000 and these are what come up the most:

Ford Fiesta
Fiat 500/500e
Chevy Spark
Chevy Sonic
Chrysler 200
Nissan Versa

Nothing that looks particularly attractive or reliable.

There are some other random cars, but those seem to be the most widely available with that mileage and price.
If I start looking at cars with over 100K miles, then all kinds of other cars start showing up under $7K, but she will be killed with future repair costs.

The Leaf looks like the nicest, lowest mileage vehicle she could possibly get for under $7K, but the range restriction would be extremely limiting especially for someone who would not use public charging to extend the range. Getting a Leaf would save her a lot of hassles with repairs though since there should be little to go wrong except the major issue of maybe needing to replace the battery which would make a $7K car end up costing $14K after the cost of the battery swap and still then still only have less than 80 miles range.
If she can live with the short range and never replace the battery, then it could be bargain transportation.

Driving gently, 50 miles on the GOM should translate to 40 miles real world, with climate control, except in frigid weather. My main concern here is the quality of that 120 volt circuit - it has to be unused (except at most a light or two) and can't be really old wiring or an old outlet.

LeftieBiker said:

Driving gently, 50 miles on the GOM should translate to 40 miles real world, with climate control, except in frigid weather. My main concern here is the quality of that 120 volt circuit - it has to be unused (except at most a light or two) and can't be really old wiring or an old outlet.

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It would be in a garage that only has a washer and gas dryer and the garage door opener.
As long as the washing machine isn't in use, there should be nothing else on that circuit while charging.
The house is about 30 years old.

The wiring situation isn't good. Even if the wiring isn't old aluminum, the garage door opener may well pull enough juice to overload the circuit while the car is charging, as would the washer. Check to see how many circuits the garage has, what is on each, and what kind of wiring is there. You don't want to put someone else's life and property in danger.

The garage door wouldn't normally be used while the car is charging because there is only one car that would be going in and out of the garage.
She can be instructed to not charge and do laundry at the same time. It would be easy to avoid those issues if the car can be set automatically charge late at night when nobody would be using the washer or opening the garage door.
It could also be set up to use the same physical outlet so the car cannot be charged unless the washer is unplugged from the outlet.

That leaves the questionable state of the wiring itself.

I haven't seen it, but I would think 1980's wiring is relatively modern as far as house wiring goes.

Any 30 year old circuit - especially the outlet - should be inspected before being used to charge, and the outlet should likely be replaced with a new one unless it was unused. Imagine running a 1200 watt electric heater, with no thermostat, continuously for up to 22 hours.

I think it's fair to say that a Leaf would be too techie for many older people, although an S is definitely less so.

Might be worth considering a Fiat 500e, or a Smart Fortwo electric.

leaftryer said:

I haven't seen it, but I would think 1980's wiring is relatively modern as far as house wiring goes.

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I agree with you. I have a house built in the 1950's and it's wiring works just fine. As long as rodents and termites haven't been gnawing at the insulation, the wiring should be fine. If the outlets show any sign of damage though, then they should be replaced as a precaution.

But back to your original question. The problem is that battery degradation is time-based as well. So even if you can find a 2013 with 11-12 bars remaining, the battery will still degrade over the years. Will it self-degrade below 50miles of range? I don't think I've seen anyone claim one way or the other.

So I think you need to also state how many years of service is this car to provide?

I have a house built in the 1950's and it's wiring works just fine. As long as rodents and termites haven't been gnawing at the insulation, the wiring should be fine.

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Are you assuming that your wiring will give you some kind of safe warning when it starts to fail under load, or that if it hasn't failed yet, it never will? Neither is correct. I'm also using wiring from that era in my garage, but I'm not complacent about it - it worries me. At least I'm dedicating a whole circuit to charging.

LeftieBiker said:

Are you assuming that your wiring will give you some kind of safe warning when it starts to fail under load, or that if it hasn't failed yet, it never will? Neither is correct. I'm also using wiring from that era in my garage, but I'm not complacent about it - it worries me. At least I'm dedicating a whole circuit to charging.

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Hardly, but assuming 30 years is enough to degrade insulated copper is going too far isn't it? As long as he's not drawing more than 12 amps off a 15amp circuit, 14gauge insulated copper cabling can handle the load.

If, due to rats or bad nails, the cable is nicked so that the internal resistance causes the cable temp to rise, the current draw will increase to the point of tripping the circuit breaker. That's what they're there for. @ which point, an electrician is needed to inspect the cable and possibly run a new one. Fires happen from faulty outlets or bad circuit breakers, not bad cabling.

Realize the garage 120V circuit may (likely) feed other areas of the house. My garage outlet is on the same circuit as the wall outlets in the bathrooms. I discovered this the second evening I had my Fiat 500e charging and the wife plugged in her hair dryer.

If, due to rats or bad nails, the cable is nicked so that the internal resistance causes the cable temp to rise, the current draw will increase to the point of tripping the circuit breaker. That's what they're there for.

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Assuming the breaker works properly - many don't. That's why the circuit has to be checked first.

Just spend some mkney on a proper 220v hook up should cost about $500

Check behind dryer for existing 240-volt receptacle (some houses were set up for both electric and gas dryers). If house was built in the 1980s, then copper wire should have been used for 120-volt circuits and garage receptacles were probably supplied through GFCI receptacle(s) in bathroom(s). Washer may be on dedicated non-GFCI circuit. If house was built in 1960s or 1970s, have an electrician check the 120-volt circuits because aluminum wiring may have been used. Aluminum wiring is OK if connections to devices such as breakers, switches, and receptacles were installed and maintained properly. Improper connections will get hot and could cause a fire with sustained charging current (circuit breakers will not protect against this because current does not exceed breaker rating until insulation fails after fire has already started).

Charging time depends upon miles driven between charges regardless of battery capacity. A new battery will require over 24 hours to charge from dead at 120 volts, while a deteriorated battery will require less time, but allow less driving. I still made my 52-mile round trip commute (26 miles each way) with A/C use in my 2011 that was down to 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery so a used car with a battery in good condition should be able to handle 40 miles on a charge for several years. Do not expect to get more than 3 or 4 miles of driving for each full hour of charging at 120 volts, regardless of battery capacity.

Well, my 9 Bar 2011 LEAF would be perfect, but I plan to keep it to do exactly what you are suggesting...excepting that I have an oil gasser to use for trips, etc.

There seems to be lots anecdotal evidence that the Japanese built cars have fewer problems than the original US built ones...

That said, if the charger goes, or something else out of warranty, it's a heck of a paperweight...

And I don't find the car complicated at all, and do much of my charging overnight on L1. And at my original house, used the same garage outlet on the same circuit as the garage opener...

So I am more supportive, but I'd go for a Japanese build instead of the 2013...

Good luck...

Hope this isn't too far off the topic, but does anyone know if I can have the 107 mi. battery that is currently in the new Leafs put into my 2013 Leaf? I have no problems at the moment. I'm just thinking what I might need down the road.

My 9-bar 2011 Leaf still gets about 50 mi in summer and 30-40 mi in winter. I've been charging at 12 amp and 120 V since day one in a 1960s house. Yes, the Leaf can charge on the same circuit as the garage door opener, including when it goes up and down (remember that's only for a few seconds and the circuit can handle 15 amps for short periods of time). However, do not charge an EV and run a washing machine on the same circuit. The washer has a very high initial draw each time it turns on. This is more damaging to the circuit breaker and it's the only one that I've had to replace in my house (also it was a 20-amp circuit, so I'm assuming most other locations have the same).

So, yes, the Leaf will work for an older retired person who only drives 20 mi/day using a standard 120V. However, the receptacle should be good and tight (I replaced mine) and you must not allow the weight of the EVSE brick to hang on the receptacle. I've mounted mine on the wall and leave it plugged in continuously, driving around town without any means of recharging outside the home. I only unplug and put it in the car for rare trips outside of town (in the first 3-4 years and probably not anymore). I can easily replace 50 mi of range overnight and some nights I don't bother to charge, parking outside to help radiatively cool the battery. Unfortunately for me, all of this babying of the battery means that I will miss the 5 yr, 60,000 mile 8-bar warranty replacement by about 2 or 3 years.