About that 40 kWh Battery

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SageBrush

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I want to know if it is a drop-in replacement for the 30 kWh models. If so, it could make the current 30 kWh cars an excellent value.
 
Considering Nissan refuses to put the 30kWh battery packs into 24kWh cars, I doubt they'll put 40kWh packs into 24kWh or 30kWh cars.. Remember, they want to sell you a NEW car, not make your degrading one useful again.
 
Ravaged reputation? You mean with us early adopters? Nah, they are moving onto new customers who want new cars.

At least the 30kWh packs were going into cars with the same chassis as the 24kWh packs. If they didn't want to make that possible, I doubt there is any chance a larger pack will be made available for any 1st gen LEAF.
 
Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.
 
edatoakrun said:
Anyone found a detailed report on battery improvements, beyond the large increase in density?

Nissan unveils new LEAF; 150-mile range; high-power variant with larger battery in 2019

...The individual cell structure of the laminated lithium-ion battery cells was improved—a 67% increase in energy density versus the 2010 model. Another key engineering improvement for the lithium-ion battery pack is enhanced electrode materials with revised chemistry, resulting in higher power density while contributing to greater battery durability on charge and discharge...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170906-leaf.html
 
internalaudit said:
Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.
Yeah, he did, IIRC. He's a bit more rabid than I am towards Nissan, but my disdain started with my Versa which had a failing transmission that they tried so hard to deny was the issue until it finally failed at 45,000 miles (after manifesting problems at 20,000 miles.) Our warranty replacement is starting to have the same issues at the 65,000 mark that our first transmission started having at 20,000 miles. (Oh look, 20,000 miles after being replaced!)
My only hope is that the Versa lasts long enough for me to get my first Model 3 so that it can be my wife's daily driver while I will limp along with the Leaf except for days that I have to be able to travel more than 55 miles in one day, in which case we will swap cars or I will have to drive the Versa. (HORROR!)
When I first got my Leaf, it would get 65 miles a day at 4kWh/mi, but it's lost 2.5kWh in capacity since I purchased it, so it's usable 4 days out of 5 for my commute unless I make exceptional changes to allow for 2 additional charging sessions during the day. (I often have to if doing errands beyond my commute.) It looks like I will lose bar #4 about 2-2 months after my warranty expiration. That does make one a bit irate, especially when combined with the Versa debacle where it will likely fail again at the 75,000 mile mark. If I had a replacement battery in the Leaf, I could delay getting a 2nd Tesla Model 3 until 2020 or so, but as is, I will likely end up being a 2 Tesla household within the next year and a half.
 
I'm at the reveal in Las Vegas. Invited by Nissan ;)

#2018LEAF Test Drive with David Laur

https://youtu.be/ncHybhwvxY4
 
internalaudit said:
Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.
Didn't you read his signature?
 
internalaudit said:
Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.

He's really not that antagonistic toward Nissan in general, although maybe a little more than I'm toward Tesla.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_4nXrEKh4&feature=youtu.be

see minute 11:59

40 kWh been installed
 
RNM said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_4nXrEKh4&feature=youtu.be

see minute 11:59

40 kWh been installed
Cool video. Thanks!

Yes, that battery does look the same to me. I wonder if there is space for more battery under the trunk.
 
My understanding is that the 40 kwh battery is the same physical dimensions as the 30 kwh and 24 kwh. The higher capacity was achieved with higher density of individual cells. The reason you can not "drop in" a higher capacity battery is that the electronic systems are not compatible and Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.
 
My bet is that 24 KWH, 30 KWH, and the new 40 KWH batteries are all compatible with minor reprogramming of the BMS. The fact that they quietly changed the 2016 S from a 24 KWH to a 30 KWH battery mid season is evidence of that. I doubt that they ever built two different BMS's for the 2016's. The fact is that Nissan wants to sell you a new car, not a new battery. Even if the BMS is physically different, it could be replaced as well as the battery. Nissan has no interest in having you upgrade your car or even letting you maintain it. Service work is the bread and butter for the dealership and electric vehicles just don't need much of it at all. Nissan's Consult III tool is not available to anyone other than the dealers as far as I know and it is the main troubleshooting tool for a Leaf.

At some point someone will buy a salvaged 30 KWh battery to put into an old Leaf either by swapping the cells into the old case or figuring out how to fool the BMS. Wait and see.
 
Dooglas said:
Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.
Nissan also had no plans to offer a battery warranty degradation warranty ... until they were sued.
As for the self-interest angle, if consumers decide not to buy a Nissan *at all* if they cannot buy a battery upgradable EV, the message will get through.
 
SageBrush said:
Dooglas said:
Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.
Nissan also had no plans to offer a battery warranty degradation warranty ... until they were sued.
As for the self-interest angle, if consumers decide not to buy a Nissan *at all* if they cannot buy a battery upgradable EV, the message will get through.

All it would take is for a competitor to offer an alternative. This is how I see it going down. Somebody relatively new to the EV market (say VW or Ford for instance) wants to break in. So they start offering upgraded batteries for old cars, with the promise to do the same in the future with current new cars. Nissan's customers flock to the competitor. Nissan finally decides to offer the same.

Right now, competition is pretty much non-existent for Nissan. They own the affordable medium-range EV market. While there are other products (Focus EV, eGolf, etc), the availability is simply not there. The Bolt is more expensive, and still not available world wide (like Europe or Japan, where Nissan sells a huge percentage of Leafs). The Model III simply is not available yet to anyone not on the "inside".
 
I wonder about the heat. That space was designed for 24kwh. Then they added 25% more. Now they added another 33% more. That means the chemistry got 33% better, or they packed in another 33% more cells in the same space, or some bit of both. That sounds like a lot less room to dissipate heat. I've seen good and bad reports on the 30kwh batteries. I really hope they have this worked out.

Do we have any official references on specifics of battery composition and changes over the years. The only thing I found was that message board post from a Nissan employee saying something like replacement batteries would have the improved composition, but no specifics. What do we really know with citations?
 
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