2018 LEAF Drive Review

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Well its easy to see why we don't see over 6 kw public charging and that is because ignoring less than 10,000 Bolts on the road (Tesla's DO see faster L2) look at the size of the battery packs. This will change dramatically in the next year. The thought that L2 providers will remain static is simply not likely. Central WA has fast L2's so its not like something has to be designed.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Central WA has fast L2's so its not like something has to be designed.

Heck, there are a couple of 70-80A L2s in Syracuse, NY (the J1772 spec goes up to 80A/240V = 19.2kW). Not exactly a stronghold of EVs. So yes, it's possible. And it's cheaper than DC. But I wonder if we will really see more 80A EVSEs. I would much rather see 100kW DCQCs become the norm, with free 32A L2s dotted around at companies looking to attract business.
 
The reality is its become the loose standard that an L2 recharge takes roughly 8 hours or "overnight" with a 60 kwh pack, we are looking at 10+ hours which is beyond the parameters.

So maybe 9.6 is too much but my statement that I would be surprised to see 6.6 stands. I just don't see it happening. Like any highly competitive area, when predicting future specs, we can get a real good hint of what we might expect by looking to other manufacturers.

The guesses are not rocket science. 7.7 for a 40 amp feed or 9.6 for a 50 amp feed. I will bet on one of those two any day over leaving it at 6.6
 
I test drove the '18 yesterday, unfortunately in rainy and high traffic conditions.

Reinforced my earlier impressions that it is a very well though-out major refresh of the 2011-2017 gen one LEAF.

IMO, the biggest improvement is in ride/handling, as it both felt lighter and definitely had less body roll than my 2011.

More driver leg room solved the only ergonomic issue I've ever had in my 2011.

Only real disappointments were:

As usual, Nisan screwed up the presentation.

Driver was late, and no one answered the phone at the test drive HQ.

I was in Contra Costa, ~250 miles from home, wanted to beat the PM 680/80 east rush hour traffic, and was only a few minutes from reaching maximum level of aggravation and driving home, when the driver finally showed.

As to LEAF's (slight) flaws...

ProPilot had problems with the weather, making me take the wheel whenever drizzle increased to light rain.

It also apparently mistook reflections from wet longitudinal tar strips for road markings once or twice, giving erroneous lane departure warnings.

No GPS data altimeter? This is a must-have for mountain driving as far as I am concerned, so I'll need to get that data elsewhere.

Comments of note by the Nissan employee conducting the test drives.

0.6" less road clearance than 2011-17, a net positive, except those few like myself that take their LEAFs off-pavement frequently.

He seemed skeptical of my local Nissan dealer's estimate that the earliest date my 2018 order might get to the dealer, of late December, and suggested something closer to the latest possible date I was told (early February) was much more likely.

He also said that he was informed the available capacity of the "40 kWh" pack was ~36.3 kWh, which would be good news, if it turns out to be correct.

That could suggest an EPA range rating in the mid 150's.

Not really a controlled range test, But this guy's "150 ... 170 mile range in America..." conclusion at ~1:05 is probably a pretty fair estimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzbp2uhQQfk
 
In my opinion 9.6kW charging is necessary. I specifically ran a 50amp connection to my carport so I can run at 40amps (derated amperage) for the circuit to allow me to charge my next vehicle at 40 amps. Every single week I deal with this issue:
On Mondays I must return home to get my daughter and then go take her to dance class. That means for those days I must put 90 miles on my car. My Leaf cannot do it. My Leaf COULD do it if I had a 9.6kW charger, allowing me to fill it up enough to get to/from her dance studio. I could ALMOST do it if my 2012 Leaf had a 6.6kW charger, but it does not. There are other use cases as well for work or otherwise where 9.6kW even over 6.6kW would make a difference. My Model 3 will be able to do 40 amp charging, and that's what I will do. I'm just hoping my long range car, a 2014 Nissan Versa, doesn't have the transmission crap out for a second time before we get our Model 3 in mid-2018.
Anyhow, yeah, love my Leaf, and hate it all at the same time due to range and charging times.
 
I think the same thing with our 13 Leaf, there are times I could use it if I could charge at a faster rate, but at the same time if I started with 30kWh or better yet 40kWh I wouldn't be in that pinch in the first place.
 
Durandal said:
In my opinion 9.6kW charging is necessary. I specifically ran a 50amp connection to my carport so I can run at 40amps (derated amperage) for the circuit to allow me to charge my next vehicle at 40 amps. Every single week I deal with this issue:
On Mondays I must return home to get my daughter and then go take her to dance class. That means for those days I must put 90 miles on my car. My Leaf cannot do it. My Leaf COULD do it if I had a 9.6kW charger, allowing me to fill it up enough to get to/from her dance studio....

In the context of the thread though (2018 LEAF), the higher speed charging wouldn't be a necessity as it could take a 90-mile day in stride with no problem.
 
Its a foregone conclusion that 9.6 KW charging is likely to be the norm in less than 2 years probably but in reality, this is simply another reason where no amount of range will lessen the need for fast chargers in public.

Most of these comments we see are mostly because up till now, our experience has been with EVs that cover our "basic" needs. So emergencies or simply free will are not as well covered. In some cases, a decent level 2 at home is enough. I can get 40 miles of range in 90 mins. Combined with what I already had, that is enough for most of my evenings out which is normally just dinner something that adds maybe 25 miles if detouring to pick people up (which seems to be the norm).

But if I don't have 90 mins, extra time at a QC is my preferred option anyway.
 
J1772 spec allows for 80 amp charging at 240 VAC which would be great for a fast home charger. Of course you'll need a 100 amp dedicated circuit. The fly in the ointment is battery heating at high charge rates. At 100 amps DC fast charging warms up a 30 KWH battery by 10-15 degrees in 30 minutes. Imagine a 60-75 KWH battery charging for a couple of hours. You are going to need a active cooling system or you are going to fry the battery. I can also imagine the cries from the local utility as you draw 20 KW off the grid for 2-3 hours. You would have beef up the AC-DC converter to handle the higher current as well. The major advantage for me would be to able to add 60-80 miles of range in an hour.

The truth of the matter is that 80 amp 240 VAC charging would be a lot cheaper to install than DCFC stations that require 480 VAC 3 phase commercial power. I suspect that someone could build an DCFC that would run on 240 AC at 75-80 amps and plug into the Chademo connector on a Leaf without too much difficulty. Wouldn't charge as fast but not a lot slower either. The ability to get a 60 KWH battery charged in 3-4 hours instead of 9-10 hours could be significant to a lot of people. Overnight charging sounds simple enough but it isn't always enough. Until DCFC stations are as common as gas stations currently are I'd like to have the ability to put a quick charge on the battery at home. A larger battery helps but isn't the whole answer.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Its a foregone conclusion that 9.6 KW charging is likely to be the norm in less than 2 years
Why do you say that?

Other than Teslas-powered EVs, I've seen no other mainstream EVs or PHEVs ship with above 7.2 kW OBC in the US. Many PHEVs still ship with lame 3.x kW OBCs w/no option to go higher (e.g. gen 2 Volt, I believe all Ford PHEVs, Prius Prime, most/all BMW PHEVs except the i3 REx, etc.)

I've personally never seen any public J1772 charging that is capable of over 30 or 32 amps.

Are you saying we're suddenly going to see many more vehicles w/9.6+ kW OBCs and many 40 amp public L2 EVSEs within 2 years?
 
edatoakrun said:
Comments of note by the Nissan employee conducting the test drives.
I don't think he was a Nissan employee, but rather that of a firm that Nissan hired to run the program, supply the driver/ride-along person, etc.

One of the those folks, possibly the company owner/head actually posted in https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3 within the past few months about the program and mentioned his firm's involvement with other programs, including for BMW. I unfortunately don't remember his name and don't know whether or not his post was deleted. Some folks there are errr... not happy (for lack of a better word) when people start new threads that aren't about the i3.
 
cwerdna said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Its a foregone conclusion that 9.6 KW charging is likely to be the norm in less than 2 years
Why do you say that?

Other than Teslas-powered EVs, I've seen no other mainstream EVs or PHEVs ship with above 7.2 kW OBC in the US. Many PHEVs still ship with lame 3.x kW OBCs w/no option to go higher (e.g. gen 2 Volt, I believe all Ford PHEVs, Prius Prime, most/all BMW PHEVs except the i3 REx, etc.)

I've personally never seen any public J1772 charging that is capable of over 30 or 32 amps.

Are you saying we're suddenly going to see many more vehicles w/9.6+ kW OBCs and many 40 amp public L2 EVSEs within 2 years?

primary reason is the inability to get a full recharge within the period set aside for most TOU programs. The Bolt recharge time is already 9+ hours. Manufacturers should be targeting no more than 8.

Do I understand that reality dictates that the max charge time would be needed at best a few times a month if that? Of course I do.

Has Reality EVER made a difference in the consumer's mind? NEVER, not one single time in the history of Auto Consumerism and common sense purchasing is NOT going to start now.

The Bolt has several questionable cost cutting features and the L2 speed is one of them. When the glow of Big Battery fades, people will be asking for it.

Besides; you said it yourself "Other than Tesla" ;)
 
Nissan brought a loaded 2018 LEAF to me yesterday for our 1 hour test drive.

I was particularly impressed with the ProPILOT system, the optional e-Pedal option and the new safety features.
The comfort and ride quality was even better than our 2011, which we still have.

Shaun
 
LeftieBiker said:
ePedal is standard. It's Pro Pilot that is optional.
When i say optional I mean that you can disengage it. I did that for long downhills where a traditional system was preferable so i could coast.
 
gbshaun said:
LeftieBiker said:
ePedal is standard. It's Pro Pilot that is optional.
When i say optional I mean that you can disengage it. I did that for long downhills where a traditional system was preferable so i could coast.

How does the regen level compare to the current Leaf in D and in Eco?
 
LeftieBiker said:
gbshaun said:
LeftieBiker said:
ePedal is standard. It's Pro Pilot that is optional.
When i say optional I mean that you can disengage it. I did that for long downhills where a traditional system was preferable so i could coast.

How does the regen level compare to the current Leaf in D and in Eco?


Hi, I had a test drive of a 2018 SV last night in Southern California. I had a 2013 SV which was returned last February, after extending the lease to over 3.5 years.

The regen with e-pedal is much much better than the regen on the prior version Leaf. This is now a true e-pedal, one pedal driving.

With the E-pedal enabled, it will come to a complete stop with no brake, and much more aggressively than the regen on the prior generation. I drove almost the entire time without touching the brake in both Freeway rush hour and side street driving. Once you get used to the balance between acceleration/coasting/regen, you can truly drive with the one pedal. There is a button next to the shifter that enables/disables e-pedal.

Also, with e-pedal on, there is zero creep. The car stays stopped.
The regen is more aggressive. The braking on the 2018 is also much better. With the 2013 SV , the brakes were very "grabby" when you were reaching a stop.

I also drove about 20 minutes in rush hour traffic in Orange County, CA, with the Pro-pilot enabled.. It does a very good job staying in its lane and following the car in front.. The pro-pilot/Cruise was set for 3 car distance from the car in front, and did a great job.

The interior fabric is much nicer than my old 2013 Leaf SV.. The drive was a bit sportier, and the motor did a good job on "passing" acceleration when already moving at 55+, as opposed to the 2013, which was a slug at Freeway speeds.

Exterior is also more appealing, not as dorky. I would agree with the others that the 2018 model is more like a generation 1.5 Leaf. The controls for Heat/AC/Fan appear to be same from prior generation, and still only one USB slot in front. The Touch screen is a bit larger, and much more responsive and much better resolution. The 2013 model map/center display was the worst.

Overall, I think I would lease a 2018 , if the prices come down a bit closer to my 2013 SV $268/month tax inclusive pmt.
The $3900 down payment I have been seeing is a bit steep.
 
In the test drive of the 2018, I think I put it in B mode.. not 100% sure, but with the new e-pedal enabled, the regen is much stronger and a true one pedal driving. I think it overrides the B mode, if there was even a B mode.... (sorry, was so happy with the e-pedal) I think D/B mode is irrelevant with e-pedal enabled.... the e-pedal takes over for all regen.

There is still an "eco" mode as well. It restricts the accelerator as it did in the pre-2018 models. If I had a 2018 model, I would drive with e-pedal 100% of the time, for the regen, unless going downhill, but even then, you can control the amount of regen by adjusting the accelerator a bit. This is how I controlled regen downhill in B mode on my 2013 if the regen was too strong for a smaller hill.
 
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