Guess-o-meter vs bars help!

SageBrush said:

sciencegirl said:

I'm still tempted but I really need to be able to go 70-80 miles on a charge.

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Unlikely in inclement weather

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Agreed. At least not on a 24 kWh battery car like this one. I wouldn't even recommend 80 miles on w/a new 24 kWh battery (no degradation) unless it's mostly lower speed, non-highway driving.

OP, can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations? I don't think I gleaned that from your posts.

DaveinOlyWA said:

2nd off; The salesman could be referencing the EPA standard for the LEAF when he mentioned the 73 miles (don't ask me how this number came about because I have not heard a explanation yet that made any sense. If you are interested in reading comedy, check out the 80% charge setting and how it relates to the EPA's guidelines...)

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Yeah, beats me. If the OP cares, '11 and '12 Leaf had EPA ratings of 73 miles on a full charge. '13 got a 84 mile rating on full charge due to some supposed improvements but got bumped down to 75. '14 removed the 80% charge setting which allowed the EPA rating to be 84 miles.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=30979&id=33558&id=34699
https://insideevs.com/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-old-system/
https://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

These are on new batteries (with very little degradation) in specific conditions in a lab when the car's driven on a dyno (rollers).

As soon as I get to my laptop I'll update my profile/settings...for now, let me throw it all out there.

I live in Jersey City. Most of the driving will be city. I can route my drive to work and avoid highways without losing commute time. Most of the time I won't be driving more than 30 miles round-trip daily. However, I will need to drive 120 miles in one day on occasion (60 miles each way, with time for a few hours of level 2 charging or a stop at a quick charger for the return trip)

I live very close to a quick charge station and plan on using it a lot. In fact I was planning on using it more than a trickle charge.

I am a teacher and was hoping to save some money by getting a 2013. But maybe I need to change my thinking and focus on a 2014-2015. This particular 2013 in question was at my exact price point of 10k, with all the bells and whistles (leather, rims, quick charge, nav).

New question : anyvsuch thing as an EV mechanic who would "inspect" and give their accessment of an EV?

I have a lot to think about from what's above, but doesn't seem to be the open and shut case I thought it was based on the 63mile GOM/ 90% charge display, right ?

sciencegirl said:

As soon as I get to my laptop I'll update my profile/settings...for now, let me throw it all out there.

I live in Jersey City. Most of the driving will be city. I can route my drive to work and avoid highways without losing commute time. Most of the time I won't be driving more than 30 miles round-trip daily. However, I will need to drive 120 miles in one day on occasion (60 miles each way, with time for a few hours of level 2 charging or a stop at a quick charger for the return trip)

I live very close to a quick charge station and plan on using it a lot. In fact I was planning on using it more than a trickle charge.

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Thanks!

30 miles roundtrip daily is fine.

I've never lived in an area as cold as yours in winter, but I'd also plan for a range reduction of 1/3 to 1/2 during very cold winters w/snow on the ground vs. times of year where you're not using the heater or AC. So, if you want to do that 60 mile each way trip in the dead of winter, plan on needing to charge along the way on each leg.

As for L2 or QCing, check https://www.plugshare.com/ (you'll only want to check EV Plug (J1772) for L2 and CHAdeMO DCFC) to see what you have near you and how reliable it is. You need to be careful about depending on QCs as there are a lot fewer of them and they could be broken, blocked or ICEd (blocked by an ICEV: internal combustion engine vehicle). Sometimes, DC FCs are broken for weeks or months at a time.

Assuming the Leaf you end up getting has the CHAdeMO inlet (big inlet on the left), you can only use J1772 for L1 and L2 charging and CHAdeMO for DC FCing. Currently, no non-Teslas are compatible w/Tesla Supercharger and there's no adapter to use SAE Combo (Combo1 flavor of CCS aka Frankenplug) stations either.

Her climate is slightly warmer than mine, so my Winter ranges of 45 (single digit weather, with some subzero F) to 55 miles (temps in forties Fahrenheit) should be safe for her as estimates. Driving in high subzero headwinds might lower it to 35 or so.

Oh, I forgot to mention that it had 36k miles and is equipped with the CHAdeMO charge port in it's specs. I guess I'm going back to this dealer to try for a longer test drive and get some Leafspy data. Any recommendations for an OBD to use with Leafspy . I'm using an Android phone btw

Any final thoughts on a 63 GOM with a 91% charge? Would you buy this car?

sciencegirl said:

Oh, I forgot to mention that it had 36k miles and is equipped with the CHAdeMO charge port in it's specs.

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Forget the specs, Physically confirm that it is a '13 SL. It will ONLY have black leather. If it is cloth, it is not a '13 SL. Per http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit Specs tab, quick charge port (aka CHAdeMO inlet) is standard on the SL.

http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/ under "Charging port hatch with remote keyfob release and light, option to lock the plug in place" shows what the looks like. If the left port is missing and there's a blank area, it is NOT a '13 SL. The car on that page is a '13 SL w/premium package, its only available packages. Premium adds the Bose stereo (w/subwoofer in the trunk area) and the 4 camera Around View Monitor. Such cars will have a camera button on the bottom of the touchscreen LCD bezel.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=433513#p433513 has a pic of my car with NO CHAdeMO inlet. (My previous leased '13 SV w/both packages had it.)

sciencegirl said:

I guess I'm going back to this dealer to try for a longer test drive and get some Leafspy data. Any recommendations for an OBD to use with Leafspy . I'm using an Android phone btw

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Stay clear of the KW-902: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23776&p=491001.

These both work for me but I bought them in July 2015:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F4JHHO/?tag=myelecarfor-20&
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJPHEBO/?tag=myelecarfor-20&

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Leaf_Spy_Pro&redirect=no#Clone_ELM327_Bluetooth_Scanner

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24531&p=504689&hilit=lelink+android#p504689 claims LELink works on both Android and iOS.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Turbo3.Leaf_Spy_Pro&hl=en recommends LELink.

I've pinged the author (Turbo3) about the KW902 mention at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Turbo3.Leaf_Spy_Lite&hl=en and for the regular version..

You should test your setup first with Leaf Spy Lite and only spend $ for the regular or Pro version once you've confirmed your phone and dongle work w/your car.

If you're in a hurry, order a couple that are known to supposedly work (in the past) with Leaf Spy. There's a chance that 1 might not due to being defective or removing support for commands that Leaf Spy requires. I was in that boat in July 2015 and ordered 2 different models. Luckily, the 1st one I tried worked and so did the 2nd one.

Since you're new at this and we've seen some folks have problems, esp. if they received a defective KW-902, please watch the video at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=504419#p504419.

sciencegirl said:

Any final thoughts on a 63 GOM with a 91% charge? Would you buy this car?

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GOM is worthless and what the charger says may not be a good indicator. What did the dash display in the center say for % SoC? You can cycle thru the screens by pressing the upper left in the cluster of 4 on the left.

Spot on advice from Cwerdna and leftybiker.

I don't see so severe a range hit in winter driving, but I drive without cabin heating and my climate is usually dry enough to not have to deal with a lot of condensation on the glass.

A lot of good info here, but hoping the OP isn't overwhelmed yet. The OBD II dongle is a crap-shoot with Chinese knock offs from Amazon. I notice the ones suggested earlier (one of which I have) are no longer available on Amazon. I can't recommend this one, but I did a search of the reviews and found one that said it worked with Leaf Spy. You might want to try the same with any you are considering: https://smile.amazon.com/Foseal-Bluetooth-Scanner-Diagnostic-Android/dp/B00T5G53ZM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 And another one: https://smile.amazon.com/Veepeak-Bluetooth-Automotive-Diagnostic-Vehicles/dp/B011NSX27A/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Make sure you know what the screens on Leaf Spy look like before you try to interpret the data, but look for SOH and Ahr, as mentioned here earlier.
The price seems reasonable for a loaded SL but it's likely you could knock $1000 off that. Do they have a web URL so we can check the specifics? Is there a Car Fax report available? That will answer a lot of questions.
I think the big question is: will this be your only car? If you have a backup ICE vehicle, owning a Leaf will be a lot easier.

Not using the cabin heater does tend to reduce range loss from cabin heater use. ;-)

Any final thoughts on a 63 GOM with a 91% charge? Would you buy this car?

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That just isn't enough info. If you had just driven the car very gently and got that reading, I'd be concerned. But just seeing it in a photo, with the previous drive an unknown, you simply can't say anything except that it's either lost capacity or - more likely - was driven briskly before it was parked. No way to tell which without more data.

Yes, a little info overload. BUT KEEP IT COMING!

Yes, this would be my main vehicle.

I have a 150cc bike as a backup.

It is definitely an SL - saw it myself. Including That beautiful leather. I also had them put it on the quick charger. So, I saw that with my own eyes.

It was at 60miles on the GOM and the percentage displayed a 83% charge. After 10 mins on the QC it was 63 miles on the GOM and 91% charged. THIS is my main concern. I am hoping, based on other posts here, that the GOM is way off due to the short test drives. The car has been at this dealer for a month.

I do know the limitations of having an EV. I just want to be sure I'm starting w the best case scenario on a battery and not with a battery that is starting to show degradation.....

Do I suck it up and just look into getting a 2014-5 with less toys/lux? Is the difference in battery performance that much better than a car with a 4/14/14 battery? Well I really get a significant difference in charge?

Or do I follow the advice of a previous post and buy some duct tape to cover the GOM,lol.

Battery degradation is a fact of life with an EV. In 4 years and 36K miles it's had some, it's just a matter of finding out how much. My 2013 is down one bar and shows 83% SOH in Leaf Spy after 34K miles, but it came from San Jose and heat was probably a major factor.
The thinking has been that battery prices will drop precipitously in the next few years and replacing the traction battery won't be as big of a concern. There is also the fear that no one will bother to produce a compatible battery in the future since technology will leap forward at such a pace that it won't make economic sense to bother building one. I'm personally hoping that doesn't happen any time soon.
You also realize that Nissan warranties the battery to not lose over 30% of it's capacity in 5 years/ 60K miles? There is little chance of that happening by the time you hit 5 years from the in service date, but is something to consider.
Since you mentioned you were a teacher and with a user name of sciencegirl, I'm going out on a limb and guessing you might be a science teacher? :shock: Newton's Laws of motion becomes very important with an EV. I don't run in ECO mode, but I do find myself looking for any excuse to coast down a hill or use regenerative braking when I need to slow or stop. I try not to use the HVAC more than I need to and I keep my tires inflated to 42 psi. All things I read about here that I thought I would probably ignore since I have a 16 mile round trip commute, but squeezing out every available mile seems to come natural when you have the range of an ICE car with a 3 gallon tank!
The bike could be a good backup in the spring and summer, but I doubt you'll opt for that during anything approaching winter conditions.
The GOM readings are just that right now, and hopefully way off.
From what I can gather, the 2015 "lizard" battery is holding up the best, but you have to figure out what you can afford and what you are willing to spend for that. Obviously, I opted to spend less and take a chance on a 2013 myself. I do love driving it, and I have a lot of options on what I can drive!

You also realize that Nissan warranties the battery to not lose over 30% of it's capacity in 5 years/ 60K miles? There is little chance of that happening by the time you hit 5 years from the in service date, but is something to consider.

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That won't happen with this car - I guarantee it. Anyway, if you want to know how the battery will hold up and the present capacity, you have to get the SOH and/or AH readings. My advice otherwise is as always in this situation: assume that a 12 bar Leaf from that era is an 11 bar Leaf with just a little extra range. If you aren't sure that's enough, then either pass on the car or start saving for a new battery pack in a few years.

sciencegirl said:

Or do I follow the advice of a previous post and buy some duct tape to cover the GOM,lol.

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That is terrible advice. You should use a carefully trimmed piece of black electrical tape. Much classier looking. :ugeek:

BuckMkII said:

sciencegirl said:

Or do I follow the advice of a previous post and buy some duct tape to cover the GOM,lol.

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That is terrible advice. You should use a carefully trimmed piece of black electrical tape. Much classier looking. :ugeek:

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Solid advice. Plus the residue from duct tape is so messy!

BuckMkII said:

sciencegirl said:

Or do I follow the advice of a previous post and buy some duct tape to cover the GOM,lol.

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That is terrible advice. You should use a carefully trimmed piece of black electrical tape. Much classier looking. :ugeek:

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Or a friendly "Don't Panic!" sticker.

Nubo said:

Or a friendly "Don't Panic!" sticker.

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To go with the towel kept under the seat for emergencies involving ravenous beasts.

perhaps I should look for a car that shows 42 on the GOM...

Hold out for one with a 42 somewhere in the VIN.

Just keep the towel handy and in case of emergency, engage the improbability drive.
Good to see you're still around, sciencegirl. Have you discovered any new information for us to interpret?

If it hasn't sold,I hope to look at the car again next week now that I've got an ODBII and leafspy....hope to post data here

...currently spending the weekend at NYCC...and yes, I bought my towel with me. True story.