Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

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internalaudit said:
Anyone thinks this is possible or for the 60 kWh not to be too good damn expensive like the 221st (out of production) LR Model 3?

Why Nissan Has A Trick Up Its Sleeve With The New LEAF
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/16/nissan-trick-sleeve-new-leaf/

I think it's possible. It seems like Nissan needs to have something splash-worthy that they're not divulging.

I agree with the part about Nissan lowering the price substantially after the first few months. The 2017 came down as low $23K locally.

Another question is if utilities will still offer the $10K off on the new model.
 
webb14leafs said:
hmmwv said:
I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?

FYI - I just searched and found them at that price. For all cases the advertised price includes the tax rebate. Dealers aren't supposed to include that in the advertised price, but some do.

True, I later realized that, however that's still a great price. I doubt the 2019 LEAF w/ 60kWh pack will be available for anything lower than $37,000. So in a year Nissan will have something more expensive that's in the same range league as the Bolt, which is available today at a cheaper price. I really like the LEAF and not currently planning on switching, but Nissan got to do something to stay competitive, for example, confirm active TMS in the 60kWh pack, and second keep the price at $35,000 or below.
 
hmmwv said:
webb14leafs said:
hmmwv said:
I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?

FYI - I just searched and found them at that price. For all cases the advertised price includes the tax rebate. Dealers aren't supposed to include that in the advertised price, but some do.

True, I later realized that, however that's still a great price. I doubt the 2019 LEAF w/ 60kWh pack will be available for anything lower than $37,000. So in a year Nissan will have something more expensive that's in the same range league as the Bolt, which is available today at a cheaper price. I really like the LEAF and not currently planning on switching, but Nissan got to do something to stay competitive, for example, confirm active TMS in the 60kWh pack, and second keep the price at $35,000 or below.

Only $1500 off MSRP is not great price. They are selling in my area for as low as $32K without the Tax Rebate. You also include an awful lot of speculation in your argument. The cost of batteries is decreasing steadily, so it's just as easy to speculate that the extra 20kWh of storage could only cost $3-4K next year and Nissan could offer a "premium" version of the Leaf for around $36K - up against a "base" model M3 that STILL won't be available for new buyers in late 2018. (I hate to criticize the M3. It's a great car, but this is a simple fact.)

If the Bolt is for you - then buy it, but I wouldn't even compare it to the Leaf. In a few years it will be scrapped and remembered as the most uncomfortable car of all time. A total blunder by GM. What's the point of extended range if you can't fit anything in the freakin' car.
 
webb14leafs said:
Only $1500 off MSRP is not great price. They are selling in my area for as low as $32K without the Tax Rebate. You also include an awful lot of speculation in your argument. The cost of batteries is decreasing steadily, so it's just as easy to speculate that the extra 20kWh of storage could only cost $3-4K next year and Nissan could offer a "premium" version of the Leaf for around $36K - up against a "base" model M3 that STILL won't be available for new buyers in late 2018. (I hate to criticize the M3. It's a great car, but this is a simple fact.)

If the Bolt is for you - then buy it, but I wouldn't even compare it to the Leaf. In a few years it will be scrapped and remembered as the most uncomfortable car of all time. A total blunder by GM. What's the point of extended range if you can't fit anything in the freakin' car.

Yes I also found some Bolt that's $32k before tax credit, which made them even more attractive, because that'll be in the same price league as the 40kWh 2018 LEAF, and almost certainly cheaper than the 60kWh LEAF. No it's not for me, but I'm almost think its a deal too good to pass on, I was recommending the 40kWh LEAF to a friend but now I'm inclined to recommend the Bolt, his budget is about $25,000 (after tax incentive). I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?

My personal commute is short enough that even with degradation my current LEAF can still serve me for the foreseeable future, by 2020 model year I probably gonna upgrade to a Model 3, provided it's available and price remains the same. Alternatively I'm thinking about a preowned i3 94Ah + Rex.
 
I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?

It depends on who you ask. I was really excited to test drive the bolt, but the second I sat down in the front seat I thought to myself, "What the Hell????!!!" Some people think the narrow seat feels sporty, and if you're not too tall the headroom won't be an issue. I'm just surprised that GM did something so polarizing with those seats.

I also just think it's ironic to stress the range on such a small car. 80 miles is fine for the overwhelming majority of daily commutes and weekend errands. Most people want more range to accomodate weekend trips and potentially the great american vacation. Those sorts of trips require a suitcase or 3. Not gonna happen for most people in the Bolt.
 
We seem to be off topic here, but I also test drove a fully loaded Bolt recently. I'm only 5'7 and have a medium / thin build. At first, the seat seemed fine, although it immediately felt a bit narrow. During the drive I noticed I had to sit in a very specific position to not feel uncomfortable in my back. After about 20 min of driving the Bolt, when I got out, I actually felt FATIGUED and my body was a bit sore! Once I returned back to my Leaf, the soreness went away quickly and I could sit in whatever position I wanted (leaning / slouching etc) and felt almost relaxed compared to the Bolt. The difference was so dramatic I ruled out purchasing the Bolt.
 
I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?

I have only just sat in one and it was VERY uncomfortable. But I think options could mitigate it. I am not completely out of the Bolt arena yet but I will definitely be waiting to see the 2018 version.
 
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.
 
SageBrush said:
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.

As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?
 
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.

As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?
You are confusing me with someone else.
 
SageBrush said:
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.

As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?
You are confusing me with someone else.

To that someone else, are you not too happy with out of warranty repair costs?
 
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.

As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?

SageBrush's "S" is the Leaf S, versus SV or SL.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?

I have only just sat in one and it was VERY uncomfortable. But I think options could mitigate it. I am not completely out of the Bolt arena yet but I will definitely be waiting to see the 2018 version.

I'm a shorter (5' 6") and medium build man, and I just sat in a Bolt today. The seats fit me just fine (I'm guessing my body type is the target demographic) and were "supportive", but definitely WAY TOO FIRM for long distance driving - maybe if I were younger. And don't get me started about the interior. I now understand better what the complaints were about. The Leaf S's cloth interior is much nicer than the Bolt Premier's leatherette. Making the Bolt nothing more than a one-trick pony (large battery for both range and power).

So I'm dropping consideration of the Bolt, and would only consider the model 3 (if I can save enough pennies) or leaf 2 (because of price - hoping for discounts after 6 months on the market).
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.

As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?

SageBrush's "S" is the Leaf S, versus SV or SL.

Oh, I was referring to his Model S. I didn't know he still had his Leaf S.
 
internalaudit said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
internalaudit said:
As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?

SageBrush's "S" is the Leaf S, versus SV or SL.

Oh, I was referring to his Model S. I didn't know he still had his Leaf S.
Ah .... now I get it. LOL
I own a Nissan LEAF and a Toyota Prime
I have a reservation towards a Tesla Model 3.

You are confused by my Signature. The 'QC with rear camera ' should have been a clue, if not the Ahr rating
 
Just a reminder for those complaining about Bolt seats, there are a number of inexpensive DIY hacks that seem to solve the issue for most people and only take a few min to fix. They're detailed on the mychevybolt.com forum.

There are appears to be two problems:
A) The outer/edge of the seat is too high compared to the middle, causing you to feel pinched
B) Too thin of foam causing pressure points where you can feel the metal infrastructure of the chair (varies from car to car)
(Both of these are solved by unclipping the seats, cramming some cheap foam in, and reclipping the seats so it looks stock.)

Yes, it is stupid that Chevy used such weird seats and didn't have better QC on the seat padding which seems highly variable. Yes it is stupid you have to fix it yourself on a $40k car. But it can be fixed quite easily.
 
Since I was one of the people who came up with the main fix I'll be more specific: you unclip the seat cover attachment hooks and then add medium or high density foam to the underside of the seat cushion - not under the cover on top, which would interfere with the seat heater and weight sensor. It's easier to cut the foam into two or more pieces than to try to use one large piece. This does not, however, fix any issues with the seat back, except in a few cases where being higher in the seat was enough.
 
SageBrush said:
internalaudit said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
SageBrush's "S" is the Leaf S, versus SV or SL.

Oh, I was referring to his Model S. I didn't know he still had his Leaf S.
Ah .... now I get it. LOL
I own a Nissan LEAF and a Toyota Prime
I have a reservation towards a Tesla Model 3.

You are confused by my Signature. The 'QC with rear camera ' should have been a clue, if not the Ahr rating

Haha. Makes sense know. When I saw your signature I thought you already have a CPO Tesla Model S.
 
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
internalaudit said:
Oh, I was referring to his Model S. I didn't know he still had his Leaf S.
Ah .... now I get it. LOL
I own a Nissan LEAF and a Toyota Prime
I have a reservation towards a Tesla Model 3.

You are confused by my Signature. The 'QC with rear camera ' should have been a clue, if not the Ahr rating

Haha. Makes sense know. When I saw your signature I thought you already have a CPO Tesla Model S.
I wondered about your adamant opinions, but it didn't make any sense to me that you would think I would not acknowledge my own signature.
 
SageBrush said:
internalaudit said:
SageBrush said:
Ah .... now I get it. LOL
I own a Nissan LEAF and a Toyota Prime
I have a reservation towards a Tesla Model 3.

You are confused by my Signature. The 'QC with rear camera ' should have been a clue, if not the Ahr rating

Haha. Makes sense know. When I saw your signature I thought you already have a CPO Tesla Model S.
I wondered about your adamant opinions, but it didn't make any sense to me that you would think I would not acknowledge my own signature.
Saying you have a 'Model S' instead of a 'LEAF S' is bound to cause confusion, even though you specify QC and rear view camera. The Model is 'LEAF', the trim level is 'S'. Most people will parse "Model S" and stop there. Just the way the brain works. It would be the same if you called a BMW 3-series a 'Model 3'.
 
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