Official Tesla Model 3 thread

hyperionmark said:

https://electrek.co/2017/10/11/tesla-model-3-first-used-listed-150000/

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a two-headed pig is also listed for sale at $150K

hyperionmark said:

I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles. Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.

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Your second proposition contradicts your first. As for sour grapes, I've been driving LEAF for 6 years and plan to purchase a 2018. I'll be enjoying my grapes while most Model3 reservation holders are still a year or more from tasting theirs.

FWIW I think a Leaf is a great car for most Californians. With your good charging infrastructure there it makes the paltry battery more effective. We own a Leaf and there are states in the midwest it is near impossible to get across.

For those whose needs are met by the LEAF, I agree that it would be silly from a personal finance standpoint to buy a Tesla.

On the other hand, there are those of us who've chosen to live in less urban areas who need more range and possibly more space than the LEAF offers. I'll admit that rural and exurban lifestyles are generally more energy intensive. Short of moving into the city, the best we can reasonably do to be good stewards of the environment (and our health) is eat little or no red meat, drive EVs, install solar panels, improve home efficiency, recycle and conserve whenever feasible, walk and ride bicycles, etc. Today, only Tesla makes EVs that truly support our lifestyle.

In our case, I'd say that Tesla has created demand for a relatively expensive car, simply by producing an unprecedented product. Otherwise, we'd still be sticking with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, and GM. (That said, I'm glad we are still able to get use out of our 2011 LEAF.)

Apple did the same thing with smart phones. I never thought I'd ever spend over $700 just for a "phone", but it's easy to do nowadays, and nice phones can offer a lot of value for those who appreciate and use their features. (In the interest of frugality, though, I'm not one to upgrade phones frequently.)

edatoakrun said:

dgpcolorado said:

... I bought a LEAF back in 2011 because I wanted to support EVs and to drive on "sunpower." It was very expensive for the miles I drove it, given the massive depreciation, but it was fun.

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Shouldn't have sold it when you dd, if you were concerned about cost per mile.

In fact, My 2011 has been less expensive to own than any comparable ICEV would have been over ~6.5 years, though an exact TOU calculation can only be done at resale.

="dgpcolorado"
The used Tesla has had less depreciation and more miles, so it figures to be cheaper per mile overall.

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Sorry, but I think you are delusional, even with the (unusual) state subsidy you received (right?) when you bought your S used.

Ask TSLA what it will give you as a trade in, or check actual selling prices, to see the continuing rapid depreciation of your Tesla.

New Ss and Xs cost most owners over a dollar or a mile in TCO, used ones and model 3s should be expected to do somewhat better.

A Leaf, new or used, should cost most owners 25% to 50% as much as any Tesla over similar miles driven, or time owned.

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You are mistaken.

You haven't the faintest idea of how hard I had to work to get the LEAF to meet just my local driving needs; it was fun but it gets old too. It sure was nice to get rid of my ICEV and go to one car; the used Tesla allowed me to do that and I've put 33k miles on it in nineteen months, including three 2500+ mile road trips this year to deal with eldercare issues.

I have considerably more experience with used Teslas than you do, to put it mildly. Your incessant trolling gets old. I'll let it go at that.

I have a question Mr dgpcolorado if it isn't being too nosey: had EVs not existed would you have spent what you did on your Tesla on an ICE car? What sort of car would you have otherwise bought?

Yep, probably spent too much on cars, women, children, houses... well heck! But, I will probably will die with money I haven't used. I should have lived in a cave and scrounged for food instead. :roll:

I paid too much for my Leafs and my Tesla. After all, a lot of us could ride bicycle and/or take public transportation etc.

I am seriously considering a purchase of a used Model 3 in a few years but maybe there will be a (new) best in town by then. Who knows, Nissan may be able to be back in the game by then?

I would think that some might listen to those who have (or have had) more than 1 make of electric vehicle. Sure we can all bash something that we have no actual experience with, anything can be picked apart or speculated about but where is the credibility? Granted, some will persist and do it over and over hoping it will finally sound legit, but smart people usually will see through this.

I am sure that many Leaf owners, who come to this thread, are anticipating adding a Tesla to their collection. And then there are a few of those, obviously, that are fanboys of Nissan only.

Are we only allowed to like one brand? How about we embrace the electric revolution and give them the chance to help save the air quality too!

Being that I have a couple of brands, which brand do you think I prefer to drive?

hyperionmark said:

I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles.

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Nope. I don't hate Tesla but I am a realist. I leased my first Leaf, a '13 SV w/both packages for 2 years. It was $314/mo (including taxes and fees) * 23 payments and $0 down. There was the $395 disposition fee at the end after turn in. So, total outlay for lease, not including (very minimal) maintenance, insurance, and 2nd year's registration was ~$7617.

I bought a used ~25 month old 5/2013 built '13 SV w/premium for $9,325 + tax and license in July 2015 to replace the above. I've posted about this numerous times. It is still my daily driver w/over 48.8K miles now and still has all 12 capacity bars, but it's getting real close to losing 1 per Leaf Spy stats. My ICEV mostly sits.

hyperionmark said:

Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

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There was no 200+ mile EPA range BEV in the US at a Leaf-like price range until the Chevy Bolt in Dec 2016. Even now, good luck getting a Model 3 as a non-Tesla/SpaceX employee at all, let alone for a Leaf-like price.

hyperionmark said:

That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.

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Nope, not jealous. I can easily afford to buy a new Model S w/cash. No loan or lease required. No thanks.

I have also at this point down no deposit on a Model 3. And yes, I know even if I do so today, I'll be waiting a long time. I've posted why at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=494244#p494244. I'm not a Tesla fanboy nor a hater. I haven't drank the Kool-Aid and definitely don't have the opinion that they can do no wrong, unlike some folks here. I have in no way ruled out a Tesla as a future vehicle for myself. Some folks can't help but explain away everything about Tesla...

I'd rather buy or lease Bolt (even though I'm not fan of GM w/3 of 3 not very good experiences w/their products in my family in the past) once it hits its 2nd model year than prematurely get a Model 3.

hyperionmark said:

I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles. Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.

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Seems like this forum and the leaf forums have a handful of opposing fanboys (and girls) that do some trolling. Most are just throwing out legitimate criticism. I'm on here because I've become obsessed with EVs since I purchased my Leaf. My wife is going to purchase a longer range EV in a couple of years (when more are available) and I want to keep up with what's happening with the Model 3. Tesla is great. Even if the Model 3 fails miserably it forced other car companies to react. That, on its own, is a major success for the world. I hope it doesn't fail, however, as I own stock in the company.

One point of legitimate angst is that Nissan is not given enough credit for being the first large auto manufacturer to put some skin in the game. Yes, the car has its warts, but what do you expect from a first of it's kind vehicle.

hyperionmark said:

https://electrek.co/2017/10/11/tesla-model-3-first-used-listed-150000/

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Well there's one Tesla employee that felt like risking his or her job then! I suppose if you were ready to quit anyway, you might as well take $100K profit from it!

hyperionmark said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

A noted oddity of Tesla owners is that many have spent more on their cars than they ever would have otherwise, which totally belies concerns by Audi, Mercedes or BMW that market share was at their expense. There appear to be a lot of millionaire next door types in that mix who could afford any car they want but normally opt for more frugal choices, which probably accounts for their acquired wealth to a large extent. Tesla may be taking more market share from Honda and Kia than German luxury brands.

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You sound like our dear president with those lies. Please show me sources that show that Tesla owners are spending anywhere close to those other owners on maintenance. Every single Tesla owner I know have spent literally $0 on upkeep, unless you count some occasional washer fluid. Please stop spreading lies. Have some integrity.

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I know one Tesla owner waffling over whether he was going to do a REQUIRED maintenance that would run him $900...

lpickup said:

hyperionmark said:

https://electrek.co/2017/10/11/tesla-model-3-first-used-listed-150000/

Click to expand...

Well there's one Tesla employee that felt like risking his or her job then! I suppose if you were ready to quit anyway, you might as well take $100K profit from it!

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Maybe it's Elon's

I'm just excited there are so many new EV's coming to market, especially within the next couple years. I'm rooting for any and all BEV's for environmental reasons.

DaveinOlyWA said:

hyperionmark said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

A noted oddity of Tesla owners is that many have spent more on their cars than they ever would have otherwise, which totally belies concerns by Audi, Mercedes or BMW that market share was at their expense. There appear to be a lot of millionaire next door types in that mix who could afford any car they want but normally opt for more frugal choices, which probably accounts for their acquired wealth to a large extent. Tesla may be taking more market share from Honda and Kia than German luxury brands.

Click to expand...

You sound like our dear president with those lies. Please show me sources that show that Tesla owners are spending anywhere close to those other owners on maintenance. Every single Tesla owner I know have spent literally $0 on upkeep, unless you count some occasional washer fluid. Please stop spreading lies. Have some integrity.

Click to expand...

I know one Tesla owner waffling over whether he was going to do a REQUIRED maintenance that would run him $900...

Click to expand...

Somehow the wording of my post "spent more on their cars" got interpreted as maintenance costs. I was referring to the purchase price.

That said, there's something of a myth floating around that EVs are maintenance free. True, there are some expenses avoided in terms of oil changes and some filters that are related to the ICE but unless it's a luxury brand that probably isn't going to set you back more than about $100/year. Everything else on the car, suspension parts, tires, little things that break or stop working, you name it are all the same - in the case of Tesla I'd expect these to be quite costly once you're out of warranty, just like they are on other luxury brands.

I'm a big Tesla fan and very much considering getting one at some point but I'm not under any delusion it would be anything but an indulgence. At the end of the day all cars really do about the same thing and even a $30k car is a huge diminishing return over a $15-20k car to me. Stepping up to the $75-90k range is really getting out there... even though I could I'm not feeling like I should.

DaveinOlyWA said:

hyperionmark said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

A noted oddity of Tesla owners is that many have spent more on their cars than they ever would have otherwise, which totally belies concerns by Audi, Mercedes or BMW that market share was at their expense. There appear to be a lot of millionaire next door types in that mix who could afford any car they want but normally opt for more frugal choices, which probably accounts for their acquired wealth to a large extent. Tesla may be taking more market share from Honda and Kia than German luxury brands.

Click to expand...

You sound like our dear president with those lies. Please show me sources that show that Tesla owners are spending anywhere close to those other owners on maintenance. Every single Tesla owner I know have spent literally $0 on upkeep, unless you count some occasional washer fluid. Please stop spreading lies. Have some integrity.

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I know one Tesla owner waffling over whether he was going to do a REQUIRED maintenance that would run him $900...

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Nonsense, there is no required maintenance on a Tesla at any cost to the owner. Please list any required maintenance that an owner must pay to have done. I have never paid a penny on anything. Nothing you don't do will void the warranty either. Best auto service I have ever experienced anywhere on any brand. Feel free to call Tesla service and ask what is REQUIRED with any cost.

What is this then?
https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans

LTLFTcomposite said:

What is this then?
https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans

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I don't see anything at that link regarding required service of a Tesla. I saw mutilple offers for optional service plans, similar to what every car manufacturer marketing department offers. Did you put up the wrong link?

LTLFTcomposite said:

I have a question Mr dgpcolorado if it isn't being too nosey: had EVs not existed would you have spent what you did on your Tesla on an ICE car? What sort of car would you have otherwise bought?

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Here's my answer:

I paid way more for both the LEAF and the Tesla than I would ever pay for an ICE. When you posted your comment ("A noted oddity of Tesla owners is that many have spent more on their cars than they ever would have otherwise"), I felt that everything you said definitely resonated well with my own situation. (And I understood you meant the purchase price)

At the point I got the LEAF, the average age of cars in our household was over 10 years with an average mileage of 150K (and both were brought down because I'd bought my in-law's 8-year-old 60K mi Accord for my daughter). Honda and VW were the makes. Had EVs no existed, another Honda or VW would have been the vehicle of choice. The LEAF with it's $36K sticker certainly was $15K more than any other car we'd ever bought.

DaveinOlyWA said:

I know one Tesla owner waffling over whether he was going to do a REQUIRED maintenance that would run him $900...

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I disagree with "REQUIRED" and I disagree with the price you've quoted.

But...

I am a Tesla owner waffling over whether or not to go with a maintenance plan that would run me $600/yr.

I've been really happy with the LEAF: it really has been $0 cost of maintenance so far for 3.5 years. I did put new tires on it this year, so that added up. But there's been nothing else to do. Maybe I'm skipping Nissan's recommended maintenance and will regret it later. I have definitely been skipping the coupons for oil changes they keep sending me.

telsa.com says right at the top "Premium Electric Sedans and SUVs". I didn't buy the S without understanding what I was getting into - it was going to cost more to start and cost more to maintain. At heart I'm a cheap bastard and generally don't pay extra for "premium". But once I drove an EV (the LEAF) I was hooked. And once I drove a Tesla, I was further hooked.

So now I've got an expensive car that I love driving. I'll probably waffle on the decision by in the end I'll probably decide to just opt into the maintenance plan.

webeleafowners said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

What is this then?
https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans

Click to expand...

I don't see anything at that link regarding required service of a Tesla. I saw mutilple offers for optional service plans, similar to what every car manufacturer marketing department offers. Did you put up the wrong link?

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I don't think so, don't you see a table with a maintenance schedule on that page?

Admittedly some of the listed items (tire rotations, alignments, wiper blades and key fob batteries) might be done by the customer or independent shops, they also list Drive Unit(s) fluid service at one year, and A/C desiccant bag replacement, brake fluid replacement, and cabin air filter replacement at years 2 and 4, and battery coolant replacement at year 4. It would appear from that chart the annual cost of those maintenance services ranges anywhere from $475 to $975 annually. Are these "optional" things? It doesn't sound like they are no-cost services unless you buy the maintenance plan(s), which of course means they are not no-cost.