Evoforce
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:36 pm

My advice is to not go OCD on it. Sure, give it a little love but don't go extreme. Enjoy it as a normal car and drive it.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

WetEV
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:QCs may actually help battery health, BTW, if done when the pack is cool.


QCs to improve the reported numbers, but likely don't do anything to actually improve the battery.

Both high charge and high discharge rates matter, but both don't matter as much as the temperature.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Becky50
Gold Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:42 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Aug 2012
Leaf Number: 019032
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:55 pm

[quote][/quote]My advice is to not go OCD on it. Sure, give it a little love but don't go extreme. Enjoy it as a normal car and drive it.
One of the original Forum members gave me this same advice in early 2013. I took it and am still loving driving my 2012 LEAF. It is a 2 bar loser with 36,000 miles. And it continues to meet 99% of my driving needs.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:04 am

leafdriving wrote:Hi everyone. I lost my first bar yesterday. Kinda bummed out since I didn’t expect it to happen so soon.
Here’s what I get from LeafSpy Lite:
AHr= 54.98 SOH= 84% SOC= 70.9% Hx= 81.09% 384.78V -0.45A odo= 23,798 3 QCs & 1417 L1/L2s

The build date is 10/13 and I bought it used in February of this year. I don’t drive much; I’ve only put 2900 miles on it since I bought it and I have to admit I baby the car. The car’s original owner lived in Cupertino, CA and I’m in east bay (SF bay area). I don’t know much else about the previous owner’s habits other than location and what LeafSpy provided me today. I also assume he always charged it to 100% since the “Long-life mode” was turned off when I got it.

Here are my habits: 80% mode on, usually keep the batter around 50%, occasionally get down to 15-20% remaining and then L1 charge it at the latest the next day, and never QC it.
We did have a pretty hot summer this year (hit over 110 a couple times) and I wasn’t able park the car in the shade. The highest I ever saw the battery temp was 7 bars and that was about 3 times.

I've read a lot of posts of folks who are in hot climates losing their first bar at much higher miles. Based on the info I’ve provided can any one shed some light on why I’ve probably lost my first bar already? I’m surprised given the build date, miles, almost no QCs, and the climate the car has spent it’s entire life. Part of me feels “it is what it is” but I can’t help but think that the battery is going to quickly degrade and I’ll hit under 9 bars soon after the warranty expires in 12/2018.

Thanks guys!


This is anecdotal, but I think L2 charging is better for the battery health than L1 charging (my 2013 was until I lost the first bar at 35k miles). And occasionally (monthly?) charging to 100% to re-balance the cells should also help.

But as the others have mentioned, just enjoy your leaf. It was meant to be driven.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Sep '17 - 13k mi / 359
Oct '17 - 15.5k mi / 344
Nov '17 - 17.1k mi / 332
Jan '18 - 18.9k mi / 326
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333 ?!?!

webb14leafs
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:57 am

I don't see why you think you will be down to 9 bars in late 2018. If your car is currently 4 years old, that means you're losing roughly 4% capacity per year. In 18 months you should still have 11 bars at that rate.

I just lost my first bar last week. 2014 (late 2013 build date) S with 22,000 miles and only 6 QCs. 84% SOH. It had 87% SOH when I bought it in April. I live in south Florida and the summers are long and brutal. Hopefully my degradation rate holds to about 5-6% per year. I drive 40 miles per day and also have free Level 2 charging at work, so I really only need about 30 miles of range.

baustin
Posts: 573
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:11 am

Oct 12, 2017
Fourth bar finally dropped on the way home after running some errands. Plugged it in to charge and then took a reading. Appointment to start warranty replacement scheduled for 17 October 2017.

The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, the second bar in June 2016, the third bar in November 2016, and the fourth bar in October 2017.

Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.17, SOH=58%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2176
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.60, SOH=59%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2175
Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989
Jan 09, 2017 - AHr=42.69, SOH=65%, Hx=58.59%, odo=24,787 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1874
Jun 24, 2016 - AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1569
Apr 24, 2016 - AHr=48.58, SOH=74%, Hx=68.12%, odo=23,323 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1478
Feb 23, 2016 - AHr=50.11, SOH=76%, Hx=70.96%, odo=22,874 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1393
Dec 30, 2015 - AHr=51.40, SOH=78%, Hx=73.35%, odo=22,503 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1302
Oct 11, 2015 - AHr=52.06, SOH=79%, Hx=74.56%, odo=21,536 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1145
Jul 24, 2015 - AHr=55.14, SOH=84%, Hx=80.29%, odo=19,765 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=926
May 16, 2015 - AHr=57.28, SOH=87%, Hx=84.50%, odo=19,338 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=788
Mar 27, 2015 - AHr=58.57, SOH=89%, Hx=87.04%, odo=18,539 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=701
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

sandeen
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:53 am

You made it! Hope the replacement goes smoothly, and looking forward to the LeafSpy reports on the new battery degradation. :D
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12564
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:22 am

baustin wrote:Oct 12, 2017
Fourth bar finally dropped on the way home after running some errands. Plugged it in to charge and then took a reading. Appointment to start warranty replacement scheduled for 17 October 2017.

The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, the second bar in June 2016, the third bar in November 2016, and the fourth bar in October 2017.

Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.17, SOH=58%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2176
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.60, SOH=59%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2175
Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989
Jan 09, 2017 - AHr=42.69, SOH=65%, Hx=58.59%, odo=24,787 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1874
Jun 24, 2016 - AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1569
Apr 24, 2016 - AHr=48.58, SOH=74%, Hx=68.12%, odo=23,323 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1478
Feb 23, 2016 - AHr=50.11, SOH=76%, Hx=70.96%, odo=22,874 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1393
Dec 30, 2015 - AHr=51.40, SOH=78%, Hx=73.35%, odo=22,503 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1302
Oct 11, 2015 - AHr=52.06, SOH=79%, Hx=74.56%, odo=21,536 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1145
Jul 24, 2015 - AHr=55.14, SOH=84%, Hx=80.29%, odo=19,765 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=926
May 16, 2015 - AHr=57.28, SOH=87%, Hx=84.50%, odo=19,338 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=788
Mar 27, 2015 - AHr=58.57, SOH=89%, Hx=87.04%, odo=18,539 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=701


ahr of 36? That seems lower than the norm? or not?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 129 miles, 491 GIDs, 38.1 Ahr available, 100% on everything else :)
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

baustin
Posts: 573
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:52 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
baustin wrote:Oct 12, 2017
Fourth bar finally dropped on the way home after running some errands. Plugged it in to charge and then took a reading. Appointment to start warranty replacement scheduled for 17 October 2017.

The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, the second bar in June 2016, the third bar in November 2016, and the fourth bar in October 2017.

Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.17, SOH=58%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2176
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.60, SOH=59%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2175
Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989
Jan 09, 2017 - AHr=42.69, SOH=65%, Hx=58.59%, odo=24,787 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1874
Jun 24, 2016 - AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1569
Apr 24, 2016 - AHr=48.58, SOH=74%, Hx=68.12%, odo=23,323 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1478
Feb 23, 2016 - AHr=50.11, SOH=76%, Hx=70.96%, odo=22,874 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1393
Dec 30, 2015 - AHr=51.40, SOH=78%, Hx=73.35%, odo=22,503 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1302
Oct 11, 2015 - AHr=52.06, SOH=79%, Hx=74.56%, odo=21,536 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1145
Jul 24, 2015 - AHr=55.14, SOH=84%, Hx=80.29%, odo=19,765 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=926
May 16, 2015 - AHr=57.28, SOH=87%, Hx=84.50%, odo=19,338 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=788
Mar 27, 2015 - AHr=58.57, SOH=89%, Hx=87.04%, odo=18,539 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=701


ahr of 36? That seems lower than the norm? or not?


It is the lowest, that I am aware of, for dropping the fourth bar. Most of them seem to drop between 41 and 43. I was starting to get concerned, since I expected it to drop months ago, and the five years is up next February. The battery is very-well balanced, and I have not driven it as much this summer, as in the past, due to the decreased range. It might have dropped sooner, if I had been driving it more.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

SageBrush
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:39 pm

baustin wrote:Oct 12, 2017
Fourth bar finally dropped on the way home after running some errands. Plugged it in to charge and then took a reading. Appointment to start warranty replacement scheduled for 17 October 2017.

The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, the second bar in June 2016, the third bar in November 2016, and the fourth bar in October 2017.

Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.17, SOH=58%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2176
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.60, SOH=59%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2175
Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989
Jan 09, 2017 - AHr=42.69, SOH=65%, Hx=58.59%, odo=24,787 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1874
Jun 24, 2016 - AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1569
Apr 24, 2016 - AHr=48.58, SOH=74%, Hx=68.12%, odo=23,323 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1478
Feb 23, 2016 - AHr=50.11, SOH=76%, Hx=70.96%, odo=22,874 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1393
Dec 30, 2015 - AHr=51.40, SOH=78%, Hx=73.35%, odo=22,503 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1302
Oct 11, 2015 - AHr=52.06, SOH=79%, Hx=74.56%, odo=21,536 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1145
Jul 24, 2015 - AHr=55.14, SOH=84%, Hx=80.29%, odo=19,765 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=926
May 16, 2015 - AHr=57.28, SOH=87%, Hx=84.50%, odo=19,338 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=788
Mar 27, 2015 - AHr=58.57, SOH=89%, Hx=87.04%, odo=18,539 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=701


How often do you recharge ? By your data it looks improbably frequent.

By the way, I graphed your data. No obvious rhyme or reason to when you lost capacity

Image
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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