3.3KW Regrets?

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brotherjethro said:
Clearly it depends a lot on your situation: I suppose I'm a rare case, but a few months back I bought a used 2013 with the 6.6kw charger and DCQC, and so far I've only been charging at L1 with the included EVSE. Because of my short work commute and the fact that we shop close to where we live, I have been fine on L1. In fact, I can sometimes get by with only charging on Saturday and Sunday mornings (no charges during the week).

I only suffered from range anxiety once -- did a lot of errands on a hot Saturday after only charging to 80% (my bad), and had to drop off my son at a friend's house at the top of a tall, steep hill. Made it back to my house with about 11%, no AC, windows open. Lesson learned!

Anyway, I haven't used L2 or DCQC charging. I keep thinking I probably should install an L2 EVSE-- but why?

To be fair, I have a backup ICE vehicle, a 3/4 ton diesel truck that mostly gets used for towing our camping trailer, or hauling mountain bikes on the weekends. But I drive it so rarely that it needs a battery tender.

Ditch the ICE. Get a hitch [2" receiver]. :)

leaf_cargo.jpg

I switch between this and a yakima 4-bike carrier

... now looking for a trailer ... to umm ... help friends move (yeah, that's it)!
 
This 2014 still has all 12 battery bars. Do you think some of that longevity may be due to the fact that the battery has never been charged faster than the 3.3KW rate?
 
yogajohn said:
$7500 isn't that amazing of a deal for that car. It's good, but if you shop around you'll do better. Last January I got a 2013 with 6.6kw and QC for $7900. I HIGHLY recommend shopping around and getting one with 6.6kw and a quick charge ability. I really don't think it matters what you think you'll use it for. If you get the 3.3kw you HAVE TO use it a particular way and you are completely stopping yourself from being able to travel, or do much of anything but commute and charge overnight at home.

Good luck..it's a fun car. You won't regret it!
Words of wisdom, rite there!
 
erco said:
This 2014 still has all 12 battery bars. Do you think some of that longevity may be due to the fact that the battery has never been charged faster than the 3.3KW rate?
Probably not. Climate is the biggest factor, and leaving it parked fully charged (or maybe fully discharged). Did you ever say where you mean by "local?"

My 2013 just dropped its first bar a few weeks ago. Without LeafSpy readings, you don't know if the battery is at 92% SOH or 84%, which could make the difference between the bar dropping in 2019 or tomorrow.
 
jjeff said:
I really like the 6.6kwh recharge rate when out and about using free L2 EVSEs. 1hr of shopping gives me ~30% while a 2hr charge ~60%, roughly half with my 3.3kwh Leaf which is noticeably slower :(
Also nice to be able to come home, charge at 6.6kwh and leave a couple hours later with almost a full battery.
Your units are incorrect. Charging rate is measured in kW, not "kwh".

kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons.

If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.

If it's at 6 kW for 2 hours, it's 12 kWh out of the wall.

One pays for electricity at home in cents per kWh. There are a few utilities w/residential plans where they not only bill per kWh but also have demand charges, but that's rare and complicates calculations. (Demand charges aren't unusual on many commercial plans.)
 
BuckMkII said:
erco said:
This 2014 still has all 12 battery bars. Do you think some of that longevity may be due to the fact that the battery has never been charged faster than the 3.3KW rate?
Probably not. Climate is the biggest factor, and leaving it parked fully charged (or maybe fully discharged). Did you ever say where you mean by "local?"

My 2013 just dropped its first bar a few weeks ago. Without LeafSpy readings, you don't know if the battery is at 92% SOH or 84%, which could make the difference between the bar dropping in 2019 or tomorrow.
Agreed on all of the above.

My 5/2013 built '13 SV w/"6.6 kW" OBC still has all 12 bars at past 49K miles. It had all 12 bars when I bought it used in July 2015. But, from Leaf Spy, I am getting close to losing a bar. My climate isn't nearly as mild as the Pacific NW. I'd be surprised if I still have all 12 in June 2018 and wouldn't be surprised if I lose it before May.

From the time I've owned it, almost every kWh has been added via 208 volt L2 30 amp EVSEs at my work and free public L2 charging. From Leaf Spy, IIRC, about ~5.4 to 5.5 kW makes it into the battery out of the approx. usually 5.7 to 6.0 kW coming out of the station.
 
erco said:
This 2014 still has all 12 battery bars. Do you think some of that longevity may be due to the fact that the battery has never been charged faster than the 3.3KW rate?

No....definitely not. We have people who never used anything but 120 volt charging. Degradation has not been significantly proven to be worse under any kind of charging. Even on a car that was only charged by chademo, the difference was slight compared to a car charged normally by level 2

Remember bar 12 represents 15% of capacity so you could be 14% degraded. also

*It could be the car has a new pack

*was in a cooler climate

*BMS reset.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html
 
If I were buying a used LEAF today, there is no question that a 6 kW charger would be one of my purchase requirements. There have been plenty of days when we’ve needed to add charge mid day, particularly with battery degradation, in order to use the LEAF for multiple trips. Sometimes we have chosen to delay our departures just to allow more time to charge and/or we’ve done a bit of hypermiling to stretch the remaining charge. Such behavior adjustments would be less necessary with a faster charger (we have the 3.3 kW charger).
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
brotherjethro said:
Clearly it depends a lot on your situation: I suppose I'm a rare case, but a few months back I bought a used 2013 with the 6.6kw charger and DCQC, and so far I've only been charging at L1 with the included EVSE. Because of my short work commute and the fact that we shop close to where we live, I have been fine on L1. In fact, I can sometimes get by with only charging on Saturday and Sunday mornings (no charges during the week).

I only suffered from range anxiety once -- did a lot of errands on a hot Saturday after only charging to 80% (my bad), and had to drop off my son at a friend's house at the top of a tall, steep hill. Made it back to my house with about 11%, no AC, windows open. Lesson learned!

Anyway, I haven't used L2 or DCQC charging. I keep thinking I probably should install an L2 EVSE-- but why?

To be fair, I have a backup ICE vehicle, a 3/4 ton diesel truck that mostly gets used for towing our camping trailer, or hauling mountain bikes on the weekends. But I drive it so rarely that it needs a battery tender.

Ditch the ICE. Get a hitch [2" receiver]. :)



I switch between this and a yakima 4-bike carrier

... now looking for a trailer ... to umm ... help friends move (yeah, that's it)!

LOL, while I wouldn't mind hauling mountain bikes around on a LEAF receiver hitch, I have a feeling I wouldn't get far with my 7000lb travel trailer! But the truck doesn't do bad -- it gets about 12mpg going 65mph @ 14,000lb GCVW through the hilly Sierras. And it can get 24mpg unloaded. I don't feel bad on the rare occasion that I drive it. I would feel bad driving it 3 miles to work every day. :oops:
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I would NEVER consider a "new" LEAF that did not have QC so getting a used one without it??

Not happening here. Its just too much inconvenience
Depends on the person, use cases, costs, DC FCs network, patience, etc. For me, I intentionally didn't want to pay extra for a used Leaf w/CHAdeMO. I lived with a Leaf w/CHAdeMO for 2 years and decided it wasn't worth the extra cost.

I don't have time to retype my arguments but I've posted about the 6.6 kW OBC (I love it) and CHAdeMO inlet (not worth it to me to pay $1K to $1.5K for the privilege of spending more $ to DC FC my Leaf than to fuel my Prius) tons of times. Here are some of my old posts on this, if the OP cares.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=444743#p444743
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=487347#p487347
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=487454#p487454
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=487997#p487997
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=488047#p488047

For my use cases, I would totally regret getting a car w/only a 3.x kW OBC when the 6.x kW OBC is available. However, if I only charged at home at 120 volts or overnight at home on L2 w/no use of public L2 charging and nothing at work, then having only a 3.3 kW OBC might not be a big deal.

I also wouldn't want a base S. I'm enjoying the Bose stereo (part of the premium package, n/a on S) and wouldn't find the S stereo acceptable. '14 S has no cruise control nor nav. I use both on my '13 SV. I love the Around View Monitor. It's n/a on the S.
 
I've got the 6kW charger on my Leaf and a 3.3kW on my Volt as well as a 7.2 kW capable EVSE at home. I was able to get 3 3.3kW EVSE's installed at work.

With a commute where I use slightly over half the charge getting either to or from work, and another half charge if I go to lunch, the 3.3 kW work EVSE barely has time to recharge adequately to 75% State of Charge before going home. I wish I had and will probably get at least one of our work EVSE's upgraded to a 40A model. The difference is very noticeable with my trip length.

Otherwise I really notice the fact that my Volt and Leaf take the same amount of time to charge at home from empty, although the Volt only has half the usable charge compared to the Leaf.

If you regularly make trips over 30 miles one way, you won't regret getting the more capable 6kW charge package.
 
I though about upgraded charger, and....
a) it wouldn't be easy for me to get 6.6kW power when I need it the most (at daytime with home appliances active)
b) I almost always charge to 80% and only charge to 100% as soon as I plan on departure for longer trip or it is cold outside (sub freezing, -10C). But battery won't accept that charge rate anyway at that SOC
c) I definitely use DC charge whenever I need to go further/faster. Luckily I have DC stations all around
d) it's pointless during trips. I always use DC stations when travelling. If I stay overnight, I don't need it.

During 3 years, faster on-board charger would help significantly on average only once-twice a month and usually between October - March. Due to not having that investment I had to use extra 20-30€ of money on DC sessions. During 3 years.
Therefore I'm very happy I didn't take it.

If Leaf doesn't have DC charge capability (very bad) or there is and never will be DC station near home or there is no backup vehicle, then upgraded charger might be more helpful.
 
^^^
The above is moot on '13+ US Leafs. In the US, starting with '13, if the car comes with CHAdeMO, it will have the 6.6 kW OBC. 3.x kW OBC car with CHAdeMO inlet is not a valid combination on '13+ US Leafs.

On '11 and '12, that wasn't the case but back then, the 6.6 kW OBC didn't exist.

For me, 6.6 kW OBC helps 5 to 7 days of the week. I have not had a car with CHAdeMO since July 2015. On my 2 year leased '13 with CHAdeMO, I used that inlet 16 times in total on free DC FCs. Those free ones are no longer free. Very few are free anymore and the rest are more costly to use to fuel my Leaf than it is to fuel my Prius.
 
The most common EVSE is a 30A unit. That is more than enough for the Leaf. I 40A EVSE will work fine but the car will only take 27.5A. It will ignore the rest. Currently only Tesla and Tesla based cars draw more than 30A. A volt would only draw 14A @240VAC. The car's charger sets the current as long as the EVSE will supply enough current. An enhanced Leaf needs an EVSE that will supply 27.5A. More is simply ignored.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I bought the car yesterday and I love it. LeafSpy says the SOH is 86%... so when does it drop to 11 bars, prolly soon?

I took her out for a "first free L2 charge" last night and it charged faster than I expected. It was initially something like 60% charged. I checked two hours later, it was at 99%, then 100% after I removed the cable! Had to drive around for a while to get back down to 80%.
 
erco said:
Thanks for all the replies. I bought the car yesterday and I love it. LeafSpy says the SOH is 86%... so when does it drop to 11 bars, prolly soon?

I took her out for a "first free L2 charge" last night and it charged faster than I expected. It was initially something like 60% charged. I checked two hours later, it was at 99%, then 100% after I removed the cable! Had to drive around for a while to get back down to 80%.
So after all this, what model(max charging current) did you get?
I'm guessing a 6.6kw model but starting out at 60% even a 3.3kw Leaf may be able to get close to 100% after 2hrs, I figure ~20%/hr @ 3.3kw and 30%/hr @ 6.6kw but charging slows down near 100%. Where the 6.6kw charger really comes in handy is SOC in the middle where it really screams or can take the full advantage of a 30a EVSE.
 
It's the 2014 S with the 3.3kw OBC mentioned in my OP, that's why I was surprised how fast it charged. Maybe I didn't notice the original level correctly. I'll note charge times & levels more closely from now on.

I'm not going to miss my PT Snoozer's 15/25 MPG.
 
erco said:
It's the 2014 S with the 3.3kw OBC mentioned in my OP, that's why I was surprised how fast it charged. Maybe I didn't notice the original level correctly. I'll note charge times & levels more closely from now on.

I'm not going to miss my PT Snoozer's 15/25 MPG.


Congratulations! I only have issues with the 3.3 when I drive further than the range of the car. To get back home, If there are no DCQC avail, I'm stuck charging up to 7 hours vs 3.5 with the 6.6.
 
erco said:
It's the 2014 S with the 3.3kw OBC mentioned in my OP, that's why I was surprised how fast it charged. Maybe I didn't notice the original level correctly. I'll note charge times & levels more closely from now on.

I'm not going to miss my PT Snoozer's 15/25 MPG.

So it doesn't have a quick charge port, right? Charge speed is technically 3.8 KW 240 volts/16 amps
 
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