2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

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Becky50 said:
My advice is to not go OCD on it. Sure, give it a little love but don't go extreme. Enjoy it as a normal car and drive it.
One of the original Forum members gave me this same advice in early 2013. I took it and am still loving driving my 2012 LEAF. It is a 2 bar loser with 36,000 miles. And it continues to meet 99% of my driving needs.
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I'm the original Forum member Becky mentioned. I share her experience. I live four blocks from Cupertino, so much like your original owner. I've lost only two bars on my 2011. I don't drive much - still < 30,000 mi. and the car meets 99% of my needs, too. I haven't kept track of exactly when I lost my first two bars, but my impression is that the second one came faster than the first one. It's been garaged most of its life, but the last six months or so it's been kept outside so my wife's repainted car can have the garage. I charge to 80% overnight normally, but now and then go to 100%, sometimes during the day, but I don't think I've ever done it on an exceptionally hot day. I've only used QC five or six times in the life of the car. Your experience sounds pretty normal to me. Like others, I recommend not obsessing and just treat it like a normal car.
 
I bought a used 2013 Leaf SL with a build date of March 2013. It had 10,584 miles when I purchased it in October 2016. I lost the first capacity bar about a month after purchase with 12,576 miles. I lost the 2nd bar on June 14, 2017 with 22,455 miles. I just recently lost the 3rd capacity bar around 28,300 miles in November 2017. What date will Nissan use for the battery warranty? According to the Carfax report, it arrived to a dealer in Grapevine, TX on March 26, 2013 and was sold to the first owner on May 28, 2013. Do I have until the end of May 2018 to hopefully lose the 4th bar?


Current Leaf Spy readings:
AHr=46.71
SOH= 71%
Hx= 64.72%
39 QCs
2839 L1/L2s
 
Yes, it should be exactly five years from the day it was first sold.

You can call 877-NOGASEV and they will verify the date of expiration based on VIN.
 
SeasonsAfter said:
Why don't you think I have the canary battery? From my reading in these forums is if the manufacture date is between 1/2013-3/2013 is that is the older technology battery.

Please explain. I know with my numbers is in four months having the AHr drop to 42 will be nearly impossible. HX as well.

Oh well, I am hoping Nissan can find it in their hearts to help out an owner when the bar drops after the warranty period is over. Getting a replacement battery for 10-20% of the cost would be great!

The Leaf is great, I love not paying for gas or oil changes or smog checks. Teslas are way too expensive and it seems like they have all kinds of maintenance issues.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/tesla_motors.html
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umm that is a "lost in translation" voice to text.

there is also a whole missing sentence as well. can't remember what else I said but I think it was something along the lines of day time charging and your high utility rates.
 
bwatl said:
I bought a used 2013 Leaf SL with a build date of March 2013. It had 10,584 miles when I purchased it in October 2016. I lost the first capacity bar about a month after purchase with 12,576 miles. I'm not sure when I lost the 2nd bar on June 14, 2017 with 22,455 miles. I just recently lost the 3rd capacity bar around 28,300 miles in November 2017. What date will Nissan use for the battery warranty? According to the Carfax report, it arrived to a dealer in Grapevine, TX on March 26, 2013 and was sold to the first owner on May 28, 2013. Do I have until the end of May 2018 to hopefully lose the 4th bar?

The date also appears on any work order you get from the dealer - DEL DATE, upper left corner.
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mjblazin said:
bwatl said:
I bought a used 2013 Leaf SL with a build date of March 2013. It had 10,584 miles when I purchased it in October 2016. I lost the first capacity bar about a month after purchase with 12,576 miles. I'm not sure when I lost the 2nd bar on June 14, 2017 with 22,455 miles. I just recently lost the 3rd capacity bar around 28,300 miles in November 2017. What date will Nissan use for the battery warranty? According to the Carfax report, it arrived to a dealer in Grapevine, TX on March 26, 2013 and was sold to the first owner on May 28, 2013. Do I have until the end of May 2018 to hopefully lose the 4th bar?

The date also appears on any work order you get from the dealer - DEL DATE, upper left corner.
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Click to expand...


You can contact Nissan directly to inquire when the in service date is. It would be 5 years from the in service date. Do you have Leaf Spy numbers you can provide? Sounds to me you might not make the warranty period if you only have lost the 3rd bar by now. I've lost my third bar over a year ago and will be hard pressed to make the 4th bar drop by the end of my warranty period (feb 21, 2018). My numbers below in my signature line show my battery numbers.
 
SeasonsAfter said:
mjblazin said:
bwatl said:
I bought a used 2013 Leaf SL with a build date of March 2013. It had 10,584 miles when I purchased it in October 2016. I lost the first capacity bar about a month after purchase with 12,576 miles. I'm not sure when I lost the 2nd bar on June 14, 2017 with 22,455 miles. I just recently lost the 3rd capacity bar around 28,300 miles in November 2017. What date will Nissan use for the battery warranty? According to the Carfax report, it arrived to a dealer in Grapevine, TX on March 26, 2013 and was sold to the first owner on May 28, 2013. Do I have until the end of May 2018 to hopefully lose the 4th bar?

The date also appears on any work order you get from the dealer - DEL DATE, upper left corner.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You can contact Nissan directly to inquire when the in service date is. It would be 5 years from the in service date. Do you have Leaf Spy numbers you can provide? Sounds to me you might not make the warranty period if you only have lost the 3rd bar by now. I've lost my third bar over a year ago and will be hard pressed to make the 4th bar drop by the end of my warranty period (feb 21, 2018). My numbers below in my signature line show my battery numbers.
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Its only 6% to lose and it gets warm early in GA. Just drive it more. Take it on a 4 charge road trip. Remember; 6 % on a degraded pack goes much faster than the first 6% on a new pack.
 
Yeah, I am having my leaf bask in the San Diego heat. Have it parked at work on the 7th floor in full sun! My fingers are crossed for my 4th battery bar to drop within a few months.

Any other 2013 (Jan thru March) Leafs that have Leaf Spy stats that are getting close to their warranty period expiration?

Good luck to all!
 
SeasonsAfter said:
Yeah, I am having my leaf bask in the San Diego heat. Have it parked at work on the 7th floor in full sun! My fingers are crossed for my 4th battery bar to drop within a few months.

Any other 2013 (Jan thru March) Leafs that have Leaf Spy stats that are getting close to their warranty period expiration?

Good luck to all!
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hope its charging while sitting up there!
 
SeasonsAfter said:
Yeah, I am having my leaf bask in the San Diego heat. Have it parked at work on the 7th floor in full sun! My fingers are crossed for my 4th battery bar to drop within a few months...
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Odds are you will just be wasting your time, and some small fraction of your remaining battery capacity.

I don't know what your battery warranty says, but for 2011 MY LEAFs:

LITHIUM-ION BATTERY

This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting
from or caused by:

...intentionally
attempting to reduce the life of the lithium-ion
battery...
Click to expand...
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/images/c/c3/2011-leaf-warranty-booklet.pdf

Just because Nissan has not, AFAIK, ever denied warranty coverage for that reason does not insure it will be so generous in the future.

Perhaps particularly in regard to the bottom-feeders who buy used leafs with the expressed intent of abusing their packs in order to game the four-bar warranty...should you consider yourself to fall within that class.
 
Thanks for the comments; yeah parking the Leaf in the sun is some kind of violation? It is a black leaf so hopefully absorbing as much sun as possible! I know, I probably won't get the bar to drop by Feb 2018 but haven't lost hope. It seems like my Leaf Spy data is going up lately...

72.2% GIDs
203 GIDs full charge
AHr 46.75
SOH 71%
Hx 64.79
ODO 33k

Any others in the manufacture date 1/2013- 3/2013 with Leaf Spy stats they would like to share? AHr and Hx numbers might be different than the 2011 and 2012 models. I am hoping so.
 
I don't recommend doing this, but...

If you want to drain your battery without driving, you can get a 12V space heater or other big 12V power consuming device, clip it to your 12V battery with jumper cables, turn on the Leaf in park, then switch on the space heater. The big 12V device will draw power from the 12V system, which will be powered by the traction battery and the inverter in the car, thereby drawing down the traction battery.

If that's not enough of a kluge, you can also use a 120VAC space heater and a low-cost power inverter to convert 12VDC to 120VAC. These are available from places like Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply and other bargain store.

Assuming 5 miles / kWh and a 250 watt space heater, you will use 1.25 miles worth of battery juice for every hour you run the heater. You'll have to recharge the car every three days, because the battery gives you roughly 18 kWh of energy.

Bob
 
SeasonsAfter said:
Thanks for the comments; yeah parking the Leaf in the sun is some kind of violation? It is a black leaf so hopefully absorbing as much sun as possible! I know, I probably won't get the bar to drop by Feb 2018 but haven't lost hope. It seems like my Leaf Spy data is going up lately...

72.2% GIDs
203 GIDs full charge
AHr 46.75
SOH 71%
Hx 64.79
ODO 33k

Any others in the manufacture date 1/2013- 3/2013 with Leaf Spy stats they would like to share? AHr and Hx numbers might be different than the 2011 and 2012 models. I am hoping so.
Click to expand...


Here is a very nice data collection by member sandeen:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SHdB6AqMC-1ai0ROJVeId6WUjZ7yk9wfjxB5L3n1iIw/edit#gid=0
 
With 33K miles, you just need to drive the ?ell out of it. On/Off freeway, high speeds, high acceleration, etc. Oh, if you have QC, then do that too.
 
SeasonsAfter said:
Thanks for the comments; yeah parking the Leaf in the sun is some kind of violation? It is a black leaf so hopefully absorbing as much sun as possible! I know, I probably won't get the bar to drop by Feb 2018 but haven't lost hope. It seems like my Leaf Spy data is going up lately...

72.2% GIDs
203 GIDs full charge
AHr 46.75
SOH 71%
Hx 64.79
ODO 33k

Any others in the manufacture date 1/2013- 3/2013 with Leaf Spy stats they would like to share? AHr and Hx numbers might be different than the 2011 and 2012 models. I am hoping so.
Click to expand...

oh course its NOT. too many people are off the rails here.

The guy is doing nothing more than charging at work because degradation has forced him to do so. nothing more.
 
With my numbers, driving the ?ell out of it won't degrade the battery to the 4th battery drop by the end of Feb 2018 from my calculations. I'd need 2% SOH decline each month which I can't get a drop in SOH in the months I've been using Leaf Spy.

I am not sure if this helps but I am going to run down my numbers on the times I have used Leaf Spy. Maybe some forum gurus can weigh in to see if a 4th battery drop is possible. Seems like my SOH is going up instead of down...ha

10/7/2017-AHr-46.26, SOH 70%, Hx 64.04
10/13/2017-AHr-46.51, SOH 71% Hx 64.42
10/19 AHr 47.47, SOH 72% Hx 66.07
10/24 AHr 46.77 SOH 71% Hx 64.81
10/25 AHr 46.79 SOH 71% Hx 64.85
10/26 AHr 47.2 SOH 72% Hx 65.56
10/27 AHr 46.94 SOH 71% Hx 65.09
10/29 AHr 46.74 SOH 71% Hx 64.77
10/30 AHr 46.94 SOH 71% Hx 65.09
11/1 AHr 47.15 SOH 72% Hx 65.48
11/2 AHr 47.21 SOH 72 Hx 65.58
11/3 AHr 47.25 SOH 72 Hx 65.66
11/7 AHr 46.96 SOH 71 Hx 65.11
11/14 AHr 46.75 SOH 71 Hx 64.79
11/16 AHr 46.83 SOH 71 Hx 64.9

Don't get me wrong, I love this car and will continue to drive it if I don't get a battery replacement. Not buying gas is great and I don't have any issues other than the limited range.

Happy Thanksgiving all and thanks for any suggestions/ comments you can provide.

Time for some rocking out to Death!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnJVcuUDnW4
 
SeasonsAfter said:
With my numbers, driving the ?ell out of it won't degrade the battery to the 4th battery drop by the end of Feb 2018 from my calculations. I'd need 2% SOH decline each month which I can't get a drop in SOH in the months I've been using Leaf Spy.
Click to expand...
Ya, your numbers are about the same as mine, so you may be hosed. I'm predicting my 4th bar dropping in Sept/Oct 2018 (maybe it will make it to spring). However, with 33,000 mi, you've got a lot of extra miles. Unless located in very high temperature areas, most people aren't losing the 4th bar until >45,000 mi (some not even at all, or just over 60,000). Your best chance is to accelerate your mileage use, use the DCQC, charge to 100%, and drive lots of highway speeds with high acceleration/deceleration. Remember, the motor can take energy out of the battery faster than the Chademo DCQC. Also, the Nissan warranty is that the car will always provide FULL acceleration (no loss of functionality). You can ALWAYS do this without voiding the warranty. This is their downfall because full acc is something like 4C (vs 2C for Chademo DCQC) and will really heat up the battery! I wish I'd realized this earlier.

You've got more than 8000 mi/mo, 250 mi/day. You might as well enjoy them. :twisted:
 
Yeah, no quick charge on my Leaf and not sure I can get 250 miles out of it on a day. Level 2 charge only from my home. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll just try my best to wear down the battery as much as possible. Leaf Spy should have been purchased when I bought the used Leaf but hindsight is always 20/20.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. May all the leaves run without any issues!
 

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