DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
guessing it will be on youtube in short order but the point remains that deliveries are ratcheting up!
Official Tesla Model 3 thread
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guessing it will be on youtube in short order but the point remains that deliveries are ratcheting up!
The Sunday LA Times had an article about the poor quality of the cars offered to journalists to test. You would think cars that are to be written about would be perfect. I wonder what ordinary cars look like. I may never exercise my reservation.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
No evidence that model 3 pre-production corporate deliveries have even reached 500 yet, and no public deliveries have even reached configuration stage.DaveinOlyWA said:... the point remains that deliveries are ratcheting up!
Pathetic effort so far, with only development prototypes having been delivered at a fraction of the production output Nissan managed in 2010-11, with the pioneering LEAF roll out.
Of Course, in 2011 Nissan only had to deal with a major earthquake and Tsunami, While the Model 3 output has to overcome bungling by TSLA management...
GRA
Well-known member
I knew they'd be re-using the moon landing set eventuallyEVDRIVER said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Model 3 is one of three BEVs MT is considering for COTY, so we can assume that TSLA has already loaned them one for testing, or will soon.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-introduction/
MT doesn't seem to have overly positive opinions of the other two BEVs in contention, the 2018 LEAF and Ioniq (BEV and HEV, no test of PHEV version:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/nissan-leaf-2018-car-of-the-year-contender/
http://www.motortrend.com/news/hyundai-ioniq-2018-car-of-the-year-contender/
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-introduction/
MT doesn't seem to have overly positive opinions of the other two BEVs in contention, the 2018 LEAF and Ioniq (BEV and HEV, no test of PHEV version:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/nissan-leaf-2018-car-of-the-year-contender/
http://www.motortrend.com/news/hyundai-ioniq-2018-car-of-the-year-contender/
lpickup
Well-known member
edatoakrun said:
Okay, let's fact check that statement.
Worldwide Nissan LEAF sales:
Oct 2010: 12
Nov 2010: 5
Dec 2010: 21
Jan 2011: 88
Feb 2011: 2660
Mar 2011: 326
Apr 2011: 625
May 2011: 1209
So after the first 4 months of production (basically where we are at now with the Model 3), Nissan sold 126 LEAFs. Compared to the 367 (estimated -- 220 known in the first 3 months), the fraction you are talking about would be 122/42. If Tesla's effort has been pathetic, what are we to call Nissan's effort during that time which was only 34% of that?
Now for sure, they did get things rolling quite nicely in their 5th month. And while I don't expect Tesla to roll out anywhere near 2.6K vehicles this month, indications are that things are starting to pick up quite a bit. And even if it takes an extra month to get up to the pace that Nissan finally achieved, I have a feeling you are going to look a bit silly comparing Nissan production rates with Tesla's.
edatoakrun said:
Yes, the earthquake/tsunami hit in March 2011, and you can see that Nissan's numbers subsequently took a hit. Basically it disrupted manufacturing by about 3 months. If Tesla's problems persist and there is NO progress made towards improving production rates, then your point is valid. Conversely if they clear the log jams in the system and go on to achieve a mostly unprecedented (and certainly for EVs) ramp rate, then again, you risk looking silly.
Do you have any specific evidence of "bungling" to support your thesis? About all I can think of is Elon's overpromising of the ramp rate. Other that, it's fairly presumptuous to assume that there is actual bungling going on and that this is nothing more than a typical bring up.
abasile
Well-known member
Being late and missing timetables has always been a well-known part of Tesla's corporate DNA. You sort of have to expect this, even when Elon says that they're going to be on time. Obviously, this doesn't sit well with all investors and customers, and people are within their rights to consider this "bungling".lpickup said:
I remain a Tesla fan and investor because Tesla has always come through, eventually, with amazing products. Early copies of their products have typically had lots of glitches, yes, but the company has largely stood behind their products and sought to keep their customers happy.
Our family remains in line for a Model 3 because no other manufacturer, none, is building a semi-affordable BEV with AWD, a rated range over 300 miles, and access to an extensive, intercity fast charging network. Ultimately, I think the Model 3 will sell quite well.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
abasile said:
The "all" is the key operative here. Musk has so much financial support available, he does not have to be concerned over the whims of consumerville. His backers know he might be late but he won't be short. The car will cover the need and beyond. Its the beyond that insures that he can spend willy nilly without fear of balancing the books.
As far as that goes, I will still not get a V. 1.0 Tesla of any kind. Hype and a few years experience means nothing in a company that grows no moss.
EVDRIVER
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2010
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- 6,753
lpickup said:
It is worth mentioning that Nissan has been making cars a LONG time, they have tremendous influence, supplier relations and resources. Although Tesla is not a brand new company they are very new in comparison, in theory Nissan should be miles ahead at ramping up new vehicles. Not to mention they keep building the same basic car over many years not new ground up designs like Tesla, Many people forget that Tesla was considered to never be able to produce cars because of the many industry challenges and pressures. Taking this all into consideration it makes Tesla look light years ahead of other auto makers and pretty silly to nit-pic at their time tables. Let't also look at all the other things Tesla has released lately. I find much of the criticism to be be based on personal agendas rather than fair assessments.
Let's also not forget that Nissan is refreshing a product from 2011, one they had in the market first with significant learning opportunities yet they still drag in the execution. It's as though they are catching up when they are marketing to be EV leaders.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
First MT COTY comments on model 3 posted:
Unfortunately, no definition of "REAL" is included to explain these MPGe numbers:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-2018-car-of-the-year-finalist/
edatoakrun said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Projections now reduced from "5,000 per week", to Several public deliveries in 2017? (edit)
But I was unaware of any JDM LEAF public sales and deliveries prior to December 2011, thanks for pointing that out.
Which I suppose means we missed celebrating the LEAF's seventh birthday-the anniversary first public deliveries- last month, rather than in December, as we have in past years.
I'd suggest since you count the deliveries to TSLA insiders and employees as "sales" and "deliveries", you might also count the 2011 LEAFs built and delivered to Nissan employees, even though Nissan did not characterize them as sales (and claim tax credits and CARB ZEV credits for them) as TSLA is doing with model 3s allocated to its insiders and employees .
BTW, the driver of the 2018 LEAF I took for test drive last week (something no model 3 prospective buyer has gotten yet, even after paying $1,000?) referred to it as "his car" in that he was using it as his own vehicle, full time was a final production vehicle, rather than the unfinished versions of the model 3 TSLA has been counting as "sales".
https://electrek.co/2017/11/21/tesla-model-3-order-regular-reservation-holders/
We are of course closer to five months of official model 3 "production", with zero public deliveries.lpickup said:
But I was unaware of any JDM LEAF public sales and deliveries prior to December 2011, thanks for pointing that out.
Which I suppose means we missed celebrating the LEAF's seventh birthday-the anniversary first public deliveries- last month, rather than in December, as we have in past years.
I'd suggest since you count the deliveries to TSLA insiders and employees as "sales" and "deliveries", you might also count the 2011 LEAFs built and delivered to Nissan employees, even though Nissan did not characterize them as sales (and claim tax credits and CARB ZEV credits for them) as TSLA is doing with model 3s allocated to its insiders and employees .
BTW, the driver of the 2018 LEAF I took for test drive last week (something no model 3 prospective buyer has gotten yet, even after paying $1,000?) referred to it as "his car" in that he was using it as his own vehicle, full time was a final production vehicle, rather than the unfinished versions of the model 3 TSLA has been counting as "sales".
hyperionmark
Well-known member
Are you and Donald Trump brothers? Seem to share a lot of the same qualities.
lpickup
Well-known member
edatoakrun said:
Yes, because every last person that received an invite to configure contacted Electrek immediately in time for this story to go out.
You know, occasionally you contribute a valid point to the discussion, but it becomes increasingly difficult to take you seriously when you resort to hyperbole such as this and insist on your own opinions of what constitutes a sale and a production vehicle. As you say later on, yes, I would consider all deliveries thus far sales of production vehicles. Money changed hands and the cars came off the production line, undoubtedly following a similar process to how initial cars roll off any production line that is ramping up: potentially with some hand holding and rework taking place. If you'd like to count Nissan LEAFs that were sold to Nissan insiders (that meet the criteria for being a sale of a production vehicle) then go ahead and provide your numbers.
edatoakrun said:
Again, not really sure why you choose to focus on whether the delivery was to an employee vs. a non-employee. Have the vehicles been sold? Did they come off the production line? And yes, in the part of my post that you clipped I discussed the fact that we were closing in on the 5th month. And just so you won't be able to post a headline that shockingly the LEAF's first 5 months beat the "pathetic" Model 3's, nobody hear expects the Model 3 to beat that number. But it won't be far behind.
I realize that for whatever reason you have it out for Tesla and like to spin the data to support your theory that the Model 3, and Tesla as a whole is doomed, but the other side of the coin is that the staged delivery actually makes excellent business sense. It allows Tesla to start earning revenue on vehicles in a low risk fashion rather than going through more traditional beta programs that other carmakers traditionally follow that would eat through cash and time and not contribute anything to the bottom line. Well, sorry, but Tesla doesn't roll that way. If you don't like it, maybe you need to step aside and let the industry evolve.
edatoakrun said:
Unfinished? Care to elaborate? Maybe you're talking about the software, and fine, there definitely are some features that will very likely be added to the software shortly (if they haven't already). Over the air updates is how Tesla works, unlike the the traditional automaker who doesn't give a damn once you've bought the car. Just like how my 2012 LEAF had 2010 maps in it that didn't include the newly built roads near my house, so it was not possible to using the in-car NAV system to estimate range to get me home (something a tad bit important when you are new to an EV that has limited range).
jlv
Well-known member
2018? The article says 2017. You cut that part of your quote off at the "...".edatoakrun said:
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
Some pictures of the current Model 3 configuration page:
https://imgur.com/gallery/SsnG6
They are estimating "Delivery in four weeks" for the "First Production" configuration.
https://imgur.com/gallery/SsnG6
They are estimating "Delivery in four weeks" for the "First Production" configuration.
abasile
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing! I just checked my Tesla account, and I don't yet have an invitation to configure. We reserved a Model 3 online on the evening of 2016/03/31, during the "reveal" presentation. It wouldn't really matter, anyway, because we're holding out for AWD.dgpcolorado said:
I wonder what level of "production hell" they're considering themselves to be in right now. The last I heard, Elon said they were at the eighth level, which is pretty deep (see Dante's Inferno). I think they'll make it through.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Musk has repeatedly used that interesting descriptive phrase ...abasile said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)#Eighth_Circle_.28Fraud.29
abasile
Well-known member
I think we’re taking things a bit too literally...
