GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:46 pm

Some further musing on what range the Escape PHEV will provide and why, from Brad Berman:
Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid Is Coming in 2019, But With How Much Range?
http://plugincars.com/ford-escape-plug-hybrid-coming-2019-how-much-range-133381.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jjeff
Posts: 1735
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Personally I'd want it to have 30+ miles, the 20 or so they are saying the Mitsui is believed to have is not really worth it IMO. Also I know that a 30 mile range will probably only get 15-20 in the winter just as my 70 mile Leaf is more like a 50+ mile car in winter and 40 mile car in sub-zero temps :(
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:53 pm

jjeff wrote:Personally I'd want it to have 30+ miles, the 20 or so they are saying the Mitsui is believed to have is not really worth it IMO. Also I know that a 30 mile range will probably only get 15-20 in the winter just as my 70 mile Leaf is more like a 50+ mile car in winter and 40 mile car in sub-zero temps :(

Yes, everyone needs to make their own personal winter/reserve allowances and pick their PHEV range accordingly.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

spirilis
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:28 am
Delivery Date: 11 May 2017

Re: Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:09 pm

GRA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:RIP, CMax. My wife and I still love ours, and we plan to keep it another 8-10 years. But I understand why it wasn't successful in the US market. It's small by today's standards (yet still basically the largest affordable PHEV available, including cargo space).

I really hope that Ford follows through with the Escape Energi. The Energi is a great drive train, which lives on (for now) in the Fusion. They just need to package the battery better, and maybe upgrade it with more than 7.6kWh.

I'm curious as to which of these upgrades would be a higher priority for you, and which do you think would be most important for the mass market? IMO, for the mass market getting the battery out of the cargo compartment would be #1, and keeping the price down would take precedence over boosting the range, especially if the Fed. credit goes away. The way I see it, until the price of PHEVs is roughly comparable with ICEs/HEVs, they're simply non-viable in the U.S. absent subsidies, as long as our gas prices remain where they are.

Besides, I think the max. usable capacity that makes sense from a mass market perspective is about 8.64 kWh (with whatever total capacity above that needed to provide sufficient longevity), i.e. 8 hours of L1 assuming 120V/12A. For 1.44kW and 75% efficiency, that's 1.08kW charge rate into the battery. Depending on the vehicle efficiency, that should provide between 25 and 35 miles AER, covering the routine driving needs of somewhere between 60 and 75% of U.S.drivers. People who want and can afford more AER will pay for it, but until we've got $20k PHEVs with the same space, performance etc. as ICE/HEVs, for mass adoption cost reduction while maintaining the same range is more important than range improvement at a higher price and weight/internal space impact.


Tossing in a quick comment on this since I have a 2017 C-Max Energi to go with my 2017 Focus Electric-

My priorities for a future Ford PHEV would be:

1. Liquid-cooled 7.2kW (or 9.6kW?) L2 charger (no more 3.3kW please!)
..
..
..
..
2. Larger battery, 35mi range is probably about right
3. Better packaging

Truthfully #2 and #3 aren't that far apart in priority to me, I would gladly take the current battery in a better-packed form IF I know I could recharge it faster at my errand spots along the way; having to wait 1.2hr to L2 charge the C-Max Energi to full after a trip to the nearest city (where I use ~70% battery in the winter to get there, one-way) is most annoying, being able to max out the public charging stations and have the job done in a half hour OR less is more realistic and USEFUL when shopping and/or eating out.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”