lkkms2 said:NeilBlanchard said:I do not fit comfortably in the new Leaf, and my son (who is taller than I am) would literally not fit.
We fit very comfortably in our Bolt EV.
I understand you drove a 15 Leaf S before. Does this comment mean the new Leaf is smaller or harder to get in and out of? Or that you were never really that comfortable in the 15 Leaf.
I sat in a Bolt once when they first came out and understand for some the extra height makes a big difference, but I’d have to sit in one again to focus on the difference.
I believe VW is still using conductive cooling, which it introduced in the Golf:GRA said:...The LEAF is the only PEV employing passive cooling...
https://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/31/vw-e-golf-will-not-have-active-cooling-system-lithium-battery/VW decides against active-cooling system for e-Golf lithium battery
...VW engineers tested the NMC cells in places like Death Valley and Arizona and found they didn't warm very quickly either through operation, charging (including during fast charging) or through high ambient temps. "The need for a cooling system wasn't there," Harrison said. Since the cells work so well, all the e-Golf needs to keep the battery pack at the right operating temperature is an intelligent thermal control (which regulates the amount of energy expended form each of the cells to keep the heat down) and the ability to dissipate what heat is created into the chassis and away from the pack....
In all likelihood, "air cooling" is really more of a placebo, than functional. (edit)GRA said:...The Soul uses cooled air from the cabin, and Phoenix conditions are too much for it...
Why do you keep repeating the same uninformed statements ?GRA said:..Nor is liquid cooling a panacea, as it depends on the cooling system temp setpoints. The Focus has much higher setpoints for cooling to kick in than the GM models do, and the battery suffers accordingly...
Rapid capacity loss suffered by Souls in cooler climates also suggest the obvious likelihood, that "air cooling" is really more of a placebo, than functional.
No, and I apologize, since I should not have made that comment, based only on anecdotal reports. Corrected with edit.LeftieBiker said:Do you have a link for that?Rapid capacity loss suffered by Souls in cooler climates also suggest the obvious likelihood, that "air cooling" is really more of a placebo, than functional.
I remember. The sources conflict.edatoakrun said:I believe VW is still using conductive cooling, which it introduced in the Golf:GRA said:...The LEAF is the only PEV employing passive cooling...
https://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/31/vw-e-golf-will-not-have-active-cooling-system-lithium-battery/VW decides against active-cooling system for e-Golf lithium battery
...VW engineers tested the NMC cells in places like Death Valley and Arizona and found they didn't warm very quickly either through operation, charging (including during fast charging) or through high ambient temps. "The need for a cooling system wasn't there," Harrison said. Since the cells work so well, all the e-Golf needs to keep the battery pack at the right operating temperature is an intelligent thermal control (which regulates the amount of energy expended form each of the cells to keep the heat down) and the ability to dissipate what heat is created into the chassis and away from the pack....
Possible, but may depend on the chemistry, and also the climate.edatoakrun said:In all likelihood, "air cooling" is really more of a placebo, than functional. (edit)GRA said:...The Soul uses cooled air from the cabin, and Phoenix conditions are too much for it...
IIRR the 2014+? 2015+? Sparks used LMO, while the 2013s used larger (and more temperature tolerant) LiFePo4 packs. I have no doubt that chemistry also plays a role, but the one glaring difference between the Focus and the Volt is that the former allows the pack to reach much higher temps than Li-ion is comfortable with before the cooling system kicks in, and we know that's bad regardless of the specific Li-ion chemistry. As all these cars are being tested in just about the worst possible climate, what we don't know is how much they may differ in less rugged conditions. BTW, how do you figure that the Volt's packs were being carried as refrigerated ballast? I realize that only a portion of their miles were in CD mode, but the battery was still being used much of the rest of the time (CS mode). And we know from numerous owner reports that the Gen 1 packs are holding up well throughout the country in regular use. Gen 2 remains to be seen, although they do seem to be losing capacity at a more rapid rate than Gen 1, IMO likely due to the greater SoC range accessed.edatoakrun said:Why do you keep repeating the same uninformed statements ?GRA said:..Nor is liquid cooling a panacea, as it depends on the cooling system temp setpoints. The Focus has much higher setpoints for cooling to kick in than the GM models do, and the battery suffers accordingly...
You have no factual basis for your assertion of why the focus packs failed so miserably, (extremely low efficiency/extremely high capacity loss, very similar to the poor performance of the liquid-cooled TSLA packs used in Mercedes B's) and the Chevy Sparks didn't appear to be doing much better in terms of capacity loss, before their own (gentle, low miles driven) testing was terminated:
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2015-chevrolet-spark
The only real conclusion from the AVTA testing is that all the BEV packs tested suffered significant capacity loss when used, while Volt packs, usually just being carried as refrigerated ballast, while the ICEs were used for propulsion, did just fine.
Yes, it's a different cooling system. OTOH GM is offering a hard capacity warranty, albeit lower (60%) than I would like. We're still waiting to see if Nissan will finally do likewise for the LEAF - I'm not holding my breath.edatoakrun said:As to the Bolt, GM seems to have adopted a lower-cost simplified cooling plate system, the effectiveness of which in different climates we will not know for many years, if ever:
http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-chevy-bolt-battery-cooling-and-gearbox-details/
LeftieBiker said:I'm not picking nits here. The Soul is on my short list for "Next EV if the tax credit is axed" but it will be crossed off if the pack is degrading anything like the 2017 Leaf pack, which is also crossed off.
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