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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:20 pm

Foschas wrote:Drove a PHEV Clarity the other night. PHEV/BEV discussion aside the Clarity is a very well put together vehicle. Fit and finish far surpasses the leaf. Ride quality is very good. Road/engine noise is surprisingly low. The interior volume and appointments are amazing. I’ve test driven a Volt previously and would not consider the Volt compared to the Clarity. If your in the market for a PHEV give one a ride.
Thanks for the review!

I see you are in MA. Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

RonDawg
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:02 pm

RegGuheert wrote:[Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?


BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

RonDawg
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:17 pm

GRA wrote:For those not wedded to a sedan, the Soul/e-Golf/Ionic/2018 LEAF all provide at least 110 miles of range and four or five seats for the same or less money as the Clarity.


If you need to seat 5 adults, a car as large as the Clarity is a lot more comfortable than the other choices. Around 5 inches more back seat hip room than a Leaf and considerably more leg room as well.

To be honest, at that low a lease price I would consider a Clarity if it weren't for the fact that I'm likely going to buy out the lease of my eGolf.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:54 pm

RonDawg wrote:BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.
Thanks! It's clear why Honda would limit the availability of the H2 FCV, but I cannot understand why they have decided to restrict the availability of their BEVs.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:12 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
RonDawg wrote:BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.
Thanks! It's clear why Honda would limit the availability of the H2 FCV, but I cannot understand why they have decided to restrict the availability of their BEVs.

Because they know 89 mile BEVs have a very limited market in the U.S., outside of major urban areas of CARB states, especially California where they at least get HOV stickers as a perk. A few other areas give them free parking. The market will shrink even more if the fed. tax credits go away, and now that California is going to time limit the HOV stickers to four years going forward, their long-term value will also drop. We may see even more of a shift to leasing instead of buying in California due to that, because those stickers are worth more to most people (in monetized time savings and reduced stress) than any monetary subsidy being offered.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 pm

RonDawg wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:[Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?


BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.

Actually, I believe it's just limited to being available at 12 dealers at the moment, which happen to be within range of numerous H2 stations. Whether they'd lease you one if you didn't have a convenient station, I have no idea. IOW, are they willing to take the chance that idiots will lease them, or do they screen to prevent that?

[Edit] It appears we may both be right, as I found this statement:
Clarity Fuel Cell is currently only available through authorized Honda Clarity Fuel Cell dealers in California to residents of California living or working in proximity to a hydrogen fueling station.

That seems to indicate that they do screen to at least some extent.

As for the PHEV, Honda has said it (and only the PHEV) will be available in all 50 states.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

RonDawg
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:48 pm

I know with the first-gen Clarity, they were only offering them to lessees who lived or worked near Honda's USA HQ in Torrance, CA, since almost all of the few hydrogen fueling stations at that time were in LA's South Bay. It wouldn't make sense to offer a car to someone with no refueling infrastructure nearby.

https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell has a "Check Eligibility" link on it, and it says I'm eligible to lease the car. I do know there's an ARCO about 5 miles away from my home with a hydrogen refueling station.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:24 pm

RonDawg wrote:I know with the first-gen Clarity, they were only offering them to lessees who lived or worked near Honda's USA HQ in Torrance, CA, since almost all of the few hydrogen fueling stations at that time were in LA's South Bay. It wouldn't make sense to offer a car to someone with no refueling infrastructure nearby.

https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell has a "Check Eligibility" link on it, and it says I'm eligible to lease the car. I do know there's an ARCO about 5 miles away from my home with a hydrogen refueling station.

I played around a bit to see how far away I could get form a station before I would be ruled ineligible, but only got about 10 miles or so away before I needed to do something else.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:36 pm

Via IEVS:
Honda Offers $6,500 Lease Credit On Clarity PHEV, But Only In ZEV States
https://insideevs.com/honda-offers-6500-lease-credit-clarity-phev-zev-states/

Honda has made a brazen decision to offer a generous lease credit of $6,500 on the Clarity PHEV, but only if you live in these states…
California
Connecticut
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont . . . .

As it turns out, Honda is willing to cut you a pretty swell lease deal on the Clarity PHEV, provided you live in the states listed above. What Honda is doing is simple. It’s passing on the majority of the $7,500 the Clarity PHEV qualifies for, but only in some states.

In other states like Florida, where a disgusted potential buyer tried to sign a lease deal, that money is all pocketed by Honda. There’s no $6,500 lease credit. In fact, there’s no lease credit at all. . . .

Getting traveling ZEV credits while the getting's good, I guess. I wonder if they'll expand this nationwide once 1/1/18 rolls around, assuming congress doesn't kill the tax credit entirely. IIRR, traveling ZEV credits end at the end of this year.

Also IEVS:
2018 Honda Clarity PHEV Test Drive Review
https://insideevs.com/2018-honda-clarity-phev-test-drive-review/

15.5 cu. ft trunk, and good shape: Image

The Fusion Energi is going to need replacement by a mid-sized PHEV that doesn't just dump the battery under the cargo area. Driving dynamics are okay though not exciting, but the engine's apparently noisy under high power (climbing hills), and the regen paddles don't seem to do much. One IEVS poster commented on cold weather ICE issues:

Was very seriously considering this car, but learned while reading the manual that a battery heating system is not included in the US model. Result: Will not start in battery temperatures below -22F, and engine must run in temperatures below 14F (not sure if that’s also due to lack of a battery heater). Not the most encouraging setup up north in the winter. Canadian models get a battery heater, which I’m assuming will help the need for the engine to run.


Owner (since 12/5) review starts here: http://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/honda-clarity-the-volt-challenger.292/#post-1950

GCR first drive review here: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114263_2018-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive

ABG's version: https://www.autoblog.com/2017/12/12/2018-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-review-first-drive/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:43 pm

Unless the Clarity has an actual TMS, the engine running is unrelated to the pack temp. The Volt, which does have a TMS, also runs the engine at 14F and lower.
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