Battery-electric bus discussion

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RegGuheert said:
I just took a look at Proterra's Electric Bus Specifications and I see that they have options all the way up to 660(!) kWh. It seems clear that as time goes on, more and more missions are being covered by these battery-electric buses.

As GRA posted about above, these buses now travel over 300,000 miles between battery-related roadcalls. I have no doubt that failures related to the drive electronics will be handled as time goes on.

Cost, range, reliability and durability should all continue to improve as the technology progresses.
If my math is correct Park City is saving $1200/day on diesel fuel on the one route they have Proterra buses. Of course the electricity isn't free but it's low cost coal by wire. They only have one on-route charging station though, which is a single point of failure for six buses. For a couple days the electric express turned into the diesel express :-(
Word is they are planning to acquire some 35 footers for other routes. Probably waiting to see how they work out overall; it will be interesting to see how they do in the winter.
 
http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/11616/porsche-trials-full-electric-40-tonners-for-logistics

The companies that together have sunk billions into fuel cell vehicles used to argue that the heavy things like buses and trucks could only be electrified with fuel cell. However, China is soon to celebrate 200,000 large pure electric buses in regular use and volume production of fuel cell buses has yet to begin.

What about trucks? Here there is little incentive to reduce emissions for these because they spend little or no time in city centers and operators are unlikely to pay a premium for green credentials beyond what the tightening regulations require. Volvo Group, the huge truck maker, says it is almost all about total cost of ownership of a truck. Nevertheless, IDTechEx finds that, here too, it is pure electric and conventional hybrid power trains that are in the lead though less dramatically because change is slower.

As with a minority of large buses, various forms of top up charging permit the battery to be downsized by 80% releasing more space for cargo and reducing the pure electric vehicle cost penalty. IDTechEx reports on industrial and commercial vehicles and on fuel cell vehicles tell more.

More than 600 trucks arrive at the Porsche plant in Leipzig every day as part of the company's logistics network. During the trial, the first truck with a purely electric drive is being used between the logistics centre and the assembly supply centre.

This action is part of the eJIT research project, which involves Porsche Leipzig as well as IAV GmbH, Schnellecke Logistics, Volkswagen Sachsen and the Saxony Automotive Supplier Network. The aim of the pilot project is to test the use of electric trucks under real conditions in multi-shift operation at automotive plants.

The electric truck is charged during the planned waiting times while it is being loaded at the supply centre. The battery is charged while the process is ongoing using a 150-kW fast charger, enabling the truck to be used in three-shift operation. Once fully charged, the truck has a range of around 70 kilometres and a top speed of 85 kilometres per hour. Alongside the project at Porsche Leipzig, a second electric truck is being tested by Volkswagen Sachsen at the Zwickau plant. The eJIT project is intended to run for a total of three years

A second stage of the project is scheduled for the coming year, with the Porsche plant in Leipzig set to operate a highly automated vehicle from 2018 onwards. The eJIT project is intended to run for a total of three years. The project partners IAV GmbH, Porsche Leipzig, Schnellecke Logistics, Volkswagen Sachsen and the Saxony Automotive Supplier Network have been working together since early 2016 on the electrification of trucks, with the aim of reducing noise and emissions at automotive sites.

The project is part of the technology programme "Information and communication technology for electric mobility III: Integrating commercial e-vehicles in logistics, energy, and mobility infrastructure", which is run by the German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy (BMWi) and is a continuation of the previous research into the commercial use of electric mobility.
 
Via GCC:
Clemson, SC purchases 10 Proterra electric buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170907-proterra.html

. . . CATbus purchased the Proterra Catalyst E2 buses in part with $3.9 million from the Federal Highway and Transit Administration’s (FTA) Low- or No-Emissions program. The Low-No program provided $55 million in bus-buying grants to municipalities in 2016, of which Clemson’s grant was among the largest. The ten-bus purchase complements the six Proterra buses already servicing the City of Seneca, S.C. that are operated by CATbus. In 2015, Seneca became the first city in the US to operate an all-electric bus fleet.

Since the fleet made its debut, the Seneca Proterra buses have received 27,950 charges, traveled more than 520,000 miles and eliminated over 2,848,600 lbs (1.3 metric tonnes) of greenhouse gases.
 
Via GCC:
USDOT awarding $55M to support purchase of Low-No buses; electric buses and infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170917-dot.html

Via GCC:
USDOT awarding $55M to support purchase of Low-No buses; electric buses and infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170917-dot.html

The US Department of Transportation’s Federal Transit Administration (FTA) announced $55 million in grant selections through the Low or No Emission (Low-No) Vehicle program, which funds the development of transit buses and infrastructure that use advanced fuel technologies. Fifty-one projects in 39 states will receive a share of the funding. The vast majority of the funded projects are for battery-electric buses and infrastructure; two projects are receiving a total of $3.2 million for hydrogen fuel cell buses.

Eligible projects included those that replace, rehabilitate, lease, and purchase buses and related equipment as well as projects to purchase, rehabilitate, construct or lease bus-related facilities, such as buildings for bus storage and maintenance. Projects can also include workforce development components to train the next generation of transit employees. . . .
There's a table showing where each of the grants are going, and the amounts. I've listed the two FCEV grants in the "AFV Truck and Non-BEV Bus" topic.
 
Via GCC:
Volvo receives order for 25 electric buses from Trondheim, Norway
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170918-volvo.html

The electric buses from Volvo will run on four routes in Trondheim, covering distances of between 12 and 15 km each, with operations due to start in August 2019. . . .

The fully electric buses are being sold as a complete turnkey package whereby Volvo takes care of all vehicle and battery maintenance at a fixed monthly cost. The buses will be fast-charged using opportunity charging, via rails installed at the end stops.

The charging stations will be based on an open interface known as OppCharge, which means they can be used by other electrified bus makes too. The buses will run on renewable energy so they will be entirely emission-free. Energy consumption for Volvo’s electric buses is about 80% lower than for corresponding diesel buses. . . .
 
Nice thing about making a 73+ hour maximum-range test in a bus, is that it (presumably) has a bathroom...

~800 LBS for a ~60 kWh pack, like the 2019 LEAF's optional pack?

Proterra And LG Chem Announce New Battery Cell With Higher Energy Density

...The new battery cell was built specifically to meet the rigorous performance requirements of Proterra’s heavy-duty vehicles, which, like their diesel and natural gas-fired counterparts, are typically utilized upwards of 12 hours per day of constant use. To ensure availability throughout the entire day, the batteries were optimized for maximum energy throughput capability. That allows the packs to accept a charge at a very higher rate than conventional lithium-ion battery technologies.

The new battery cells set a new high bar for the industry in energy density — which is the amount of energy stored in a given volume of space.

The new battery comes in at 160 Wh/kg (energy stored per kilo) and 260 Wh/L (energy stored per liter)...

The E2 is the longest-range electric transit bus on the market and recently proved as much with a record-breaking 1101.2 miles on a single charge. The feat was confirmed by the Navistar Proving Grounds where the bus ran at a constant speed of 15 miles per hour for what amounts to an insane 73+ hours...

http://gas2.org/2017/09/19/proterra-lg-chem-announce-new-battery-cell-higher-energy-density/

This is a production model BTW.

No, it won't get that range on the freeway, but probably could make the San Francisco to Los Angeles run, non-stop.

Proterra Counters Tesla's 'Beast' Of A Semi With 1,100-Mile Range Electric Bus

..The range test wasn’t done just to show off, but to demonstrate a variant of Proterra’s current lineup that will be offered for sale, CEO Ryan Popple told Forbes.

“It's our maximum range configuration, but it's still a production version of the bus; not a custom long-range vehicle,” he said. “It's actually a vehicle we're proposing for certain bus transit (projects) that require extremely long range.”...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/09/19/proterra-counters-teslas-beast-of-a-semi-with-1100-mile-range-electric-bus/#1e0d83ed2317
 
Via GCC:
Camden to received NJ’s first electric buses; Proterra purchase supported by Low-No grant
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171003-camden.html

ChargEVC, a non-profit coalition supporting the adoption of electric vehicles in New Jersey, announced that Camden, NJ will see the state’s first electric buses. Supported with a $500,00 Federal Transit Administration (FTA) Low or No Emission Vehicle Deployment Grant (Low-No), NJ Transit is purchasing battery-electric buses from Proterra, a ChargEVC member. When deployed, the Proterra Catalyst buses, designed and manufactured in the US, will operate out of Camden’s Newton Avenue Garage. . . .

Each Proterra bus will eliminate more than 243,000 lbs. of CO2 and help to improve air quality for the Camden community. These transit vehicles will also provide marked savings. With lower year-over-year operation and maintenance costs resulting from having thirty percent fewer parts, and lower and more stable fueling costs when compared to a standard diesel bus, NJ Transit has the potential to achieve more than $450,000 in operational savings, per vehicle, over 12 years, according to ChargEVC.
 
Via GCC:
BYD unveils North America’s largest electric bus factory; capacity for up to 1,500 vehicles annually
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171010-byd.html

BYD, the world’s largest manufacturer of electric vehicles, unveiled its expanded battery-electric bus manufacturing facility in Lancaster, California—North America’s largest. . . .

BYD has delivered 137 electric buses in the US and Canada, including more than 75 buses delivered in 2017. BYD is currently producing an additional 300 buses based on current customer orders and has options for more than 300 additional electric bus purchases.

BYD’s buses operate in transit agencies, universities and airports across North America, with more than 40 customers including LA Metro, Los Angeles Department of Transportation, Stanford University, UCLA, UC San Francisco, UC Irvine, Anaheim Resort Transportation, Long Beach Transit, Denver Regional Transportation District, City of Albuquerque, SolTrans, SunLine Transit, Link Transit, COMO Connect, Antelope Valley Transit Authority, and others. . . .
 
http://d31hzlhk6di2h5.cloudfront.net/20171009/1c/a2/73/7c/d6ba74d36ca0a2cadf239453/low-No.pdf

Ordering seven more Proterra buses bringing the total to 13, about 1/3 of the fleet.
 
Via GCC:
Proterra beats out BYD for Mineta San José International Airport electric bus contract; 10 Proterra electric buses to be in service by late 2018
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/11/20171108-sjc.html

. . . Proterra’s E2 series 35-foot electric buses feature a 440 kWh battery pack to deliver an estimated range of 251 miles. Proterra was bidding against BYD for the airport contract. With a per-bus price of $759,824, Proterra beat out BYD with a per-bus price of $969,498. . . .

With 12 million passengers annually, SJC currently provides on-site shuttle buses to transport passengers and luggage among the airport’s short- and long-term parking lots, consolidated rental car garage and terminals, with a fleet of compressed natural gas (CNG) buses. Funded in part by a $3.8-million zero-emissions vehicle grant from the Federal Aviation Administration, the new Proterra battery-electric buses will replace these older CNG buses, resulting in the elimination 3.1 million pounds of greenhouse gas tailpipe emissions over the lifetime of these vehicles.
Since the Proterra electric buses have no combustion engine, riders will enjoy a quieter, smoother, exhaust-free ride. In addition to traveler benefits, the operational cost of electricity, at $.19/mile, is substantially lower than diesel, at $.84/mile.

Combining this with greatly improved vehicle efficiency, at 21 MPG equivalent, vs. 5 MPG for their current CNG buses and reduced vehicle maintenance costs will result in an estimated savings of about $4 million during the 12-year lifetime of these ten new Proterra buses. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Emirates Transport to launch the first electric school bus in the UAE; air conditioner efficiency a point of focus
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/11/20171121-et.html

Emirates Transport (ET), the UAE government owned public transport provider, recently launched the final phase of testing for the first electric-powered school bus in the region. The 45-seater bus was manufactured in close cooperation with the Shanghai Sunwin Bus Cooperation.

During the pilot phase, the bus will operate on full routes in conditions that accurately simulate the normal school bus's daily journeys, as well as daily operating conditions. Amer Al Harmoudi, executive director of ET’s Auto Services Division, said that one of the most important technical factors during the manufacturing phase was adjusting the efficiency of the air conditioning system to suit the specific climatic conditions in the country and the nature of operation in school transport.

Fadil Atallah, manager of ET’s Technical Development Department, said that the current distance travelled by the bus is 100 km (62 miles), and that is under harsh and optimum operating conditions, including maximum power operation of air conditioning systems and all other electronics. The distance travelled under normal operating conditions is 150 km (93 miles).

In order to provide the supporting infrastructure for the operation of the bus, Al Harmoudi said there will be two fully integrated bus power stations, one at a location of the manufacturer’s UAE partner, Al Naboodah Group Enterprises (ANGE), and the other at an Emirates Transport bus terminal, adding that the current system is capable of fully charging the bus batteries in just 4 hours. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Yosemite first US national park to purchase electric buses from Proterra
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/12/20171205-yosemtie.html

Yosemite National Park will add two Proterra Catalyst electric buses to its fleet. Yosemite is the first US National Park to add zero-emission buses to its shuttle fleet permanently. . . .

With more than five million visitors each year, Yosemite has seen its free shuttle service travel annually 436,000 miles with 3.8 million boardings. In 2001, the park began replacing its diesel bus fleet with diesel-electric hybrid vehicles. Yosemite is now taking the next steps toward a state-of-the-art clean transportation system with the adoption of Proterra battery-electric buses.

The new Catalyst buses are expected annually to reduce 887,000 lbs of greenhouse gas emissions and save approximately $150,500 on maintenance and operating costs. They will begin service in late 2018 and will operate year-round, transporting up to 1,480 visitors per day through the park’s Yosemite Valley.
For a discussion of the operating requirements and infrastructure issues in Yosemite, see the series of posts starting here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20582&start=60#p465843

I'm very curious to see if they are going to limit usage to just the Valley shuttles, or else also try to use them eventually for Glacier Pt./Badger Pass runs (esp. in winter), as discussed at length in the exchange above. Unfortunately, Proterra's press release doesn't say which model of Catalyst https://www.proterra.com/performance/range/ the park will be using, so it's impossible to guess. I'd think they'd want the XR or more likely the E2, as that way they won't need to charge during the day.
 
Something is amiss with Park City's Proterra Catalysts on the electric express route. About half the buses appear to be out of service and diesel buses substituted :-(

Nighttime temps have been flirting with single digits. I wonder if the combination of cabin heat and decreased capacity has caused an issue.

Does look like they have a second on route charging station under construction at old town center.
 
Via ABG:
U.S. transit agencies cautious on electric buses despite bold forecasts
Analysts predict a boom in electric fleets.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/12/13/transit-agencies-electric-bus-byd-proterra-new-flyer/

LOS ANGELES — Communities across the United States are looking to replace their dirty diesel buses, ushering in what some analysts predict will be a boom in electric fleets. But transit agencies doing the buying are moving cautiously, an analysis by Reuters shows. Out of more than 65,000 public buses plying U.S. roads today, just 300 are electric. Among the challenges: EVs are expensive, have limited range and are unproven on a mass scale.

A typical 40-foot electric bus costs around $750,000, compared with about $435,000 for a diesel bus. Cheaper fuel and maintenance expenses can lower the overall costs over the 12-year life of the vehicles. But those costs can widely depending on utility rates, terrain and weather. The technology is still a gamble for many cities at a time when bus ridership is falling nationwide and officials are trying to keep a lid on fares, says Chris Stoddart, an executive at Canadian bus maker New Flyer Industries Inc. . . .

Rival electric bus manufacturers expect dramatic growth; the most ambitious forecasts call for all bus purchases to be electric by 2030. But even green-energy advocates are skeptical of such rosy predictions. CALSTART, a California-based nonprofit that promotes clean transportation, figures 50 percent to 60 percent of new buses will be zero emissions by 2030. Market research firm Navigant Research expects electric buses to make up 27 percent of new U.S. bus sales by 2027.

Not quite there yet

Transit agencies have found EV performance lags in extreme conditions. In environmentally friendly San Francisco, officials have resisted electrics over concerns about the city's famously steep hills. "The technology isn't quite there yet," Erica Kato, a spokeswoman for the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, said in a statement.

Weather is also a major challenge.

An electric bus tested last year near Phoenix wilted in the summer heat due to the strains of running the air conditioning. The vehicle never achieved more than 89.9 miles on a charge, less than two-thirds of its advertised range, according to a report by the Valley Metro Regional Public Transportation Authority.

In Massachusetts, two agencies running small numbers of electric buses — the Pioneer Valley Transit Authority in Springfield and Worcester's Regional Transit Authority — say the vehicles weaken in extreme cold and snow. They have no plans to acquire additional EVs, officials at those agencies said. . . .

[Proterra] Chief Executive Ryan Popple said range is improving quickly. The company is currently shipping models with up to 350 miles of range, but new battery technology is expected to boost that by nearly 30 percent.

"We're starting to outstrip the market requirement in terms of what city buses actually do," Popple said. "It opens up new markets for us. . . ."

Despite the technology's limitations, some U.S. transit agencies are hitting the accelerator on their electric conversions. IndyGo, which serves greater Indianapolis, has struck a deal with BYD to purchase 31 electric buses, with the option to add dozens more, in addition to the 21 already in its fleet . . . Agency spokesman Bryan Luellen said the EVs have reduced fuel and maintenance costs by up to half compared to conventional buses.

Foothill Transit, in Southern California, has been operating Proterra buses since 2010. It now has 17 in its fleet, with 13 more scheduled to arrive before the end of the year, according to spokeswoman Felicia Friesema. Still, both agencies acknowledged tradeoffs due to the limited range of these vehicles. Foothill has mainly confined its electric buses to a short 16-mile route. The Indianapolis EVs run primarily during the morning and evening rush hours, not all day long like the diesel workhorses that remain the mainstay of the fleet. . . .
 
Heard from a friend all six of Park City's Proterra buses were out of service today on account of snow. Not the sort of resilience that instills confidence.

While this ski town may have environmentally forward thinking leadership it may not be the best place to showcase the technology... OTOH maybe Proterra wants it as a stress test. If so it would appear they have accomplished their goal. Hopefully they have fixes.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Heard from a friend all six of Park City's Proterra buses were out of service today on account of snow.
I guess I'm struggling to parse that statement. I can think of a bunch of different interpretations. Here are the ones that jump to mind:

Possible reasons caused by limitations of the buses themselves:
L1) Proterra buses do not have the range to drive their routes when they have to push through snow.
L2) Proterra buses are equipped with low-rolling-resistance tires which have terrible traction in the snow.
L3) Proterra buses are unable to charge when there is snow on the ground.
L4) All six Proterra buses broke down not long after the snow fell due to some design issue.

Possible reasons which have absolutely nothing to do with the capabilities of the buses themselves:
O1) Park City has a long-standing policy which dictates that they ONLY run their lowest-value buses on snowy days due to the higher rate of accidents that occur.
O2) Park City has never driven their electric buses in the snow before and they are taking this opportunity to evaluate how they do in those conditions before committing them to route service.
O3) The interiors of some buses in Park City's fleet are much easier to clean than those of others.
O4) Park City does not want to get their shiny new electric buses all dirty.

If I were in charge of scheduling the buses there, I would certainly do something like O1 to minimize losses in bad weather. This would make a lot of sense, but would not have been noticeable in the past when all buses were diesel. I know that when our LEAF was new, we never took it out in the snow.
 
I assumed it was either Russian collusion or the charging thingy on the roof collected too much snow.
The local paper certainly had articles featuring the introduction of these buses, in the interest of telling the whole story it would be nice if they also reported on the failings.
 
Via GCR:
Shenzhen now uses only electric buses: 16,500 of them
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114577_shenzhen-now-uses-only-electric-buses-16500-of-them

. . . According to Shenzhen Daily, an English-language paper in the city, Shenzhen is the first city to have an all-electric bus fleet in the world. It also claims to have the largest electric bus fleet, with 16,359 buses in operation, and the largest fleet of electric taxis, with 12,518 electric vehicles representing 62.5 percent of that overall fleet.

“We will gradually replace the existing fuel-powered cabs with electricity-powered ones and complete the target by 2020, or even ahead of schedule,” said Zheng Jingyu, head of the public transport department of the city’s public transport administration bureau. To support the massive fleet of electric buses, the city has installed 501 bus charging stations and 8,000 charging poles around the city and in bus stations.

This is how the new buses and taxis compare to their conventional counterparts with regards to energy use, according to Shenzhen Daily:

  • The electric buses use 72.9 percent less energy than diesel buses. In a year, the buses could save the energy equivalent of 366,000 tons of standard coal, replacing 345,000 tons of fuel, and reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 1.35 million tons. The e-taxis will save the energy equivalent of 119,000 tons of standard coal, replacing 116,000 tons of fuel. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Proterra electric bus to begin 4-month trial in Anchorage, Alaska next week
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180110-proterra.html

The Municipality of Anchorage’s (MOA) Public Transportation Department (PTD) will put a new 40-foot Proterra Catalyst E2 electric/battery powered bus on trial next week. The bus will begin serving routes for the general public for a four-month trial period.

The four-month trial period will test how the bus performs in winter weather, how cold temperatures affect the battery life and whether it’s feasible to pursue an electric bus fleet in the future. PTD partnered with MOA’s Solid Waste Services (SWS) to lease the bus. SWS will also be monitoring its performance to help establish the feasibility of electric garbage trucks. . . .
 
Via GCC:
New York to test and evaluate 5 New Flyer Xcelsior CHARGE electric buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180111-mta.html

. . . The program will begin January 2018.

The program introduces leased zero-emission buses and rapid chargers to the NYCT network. The MTA will use program results to refine and develop requirements for future electric bus procurements, and to also ensure buses are fully able to meet the rigors of operating in New York City.

For the program, New Flyer integrated battery technology from XALT Energy with high-efficiency electric motors and rapid overhead charging systems from Siemens. . . .

New Flyer also partnered with Black & Veatch, a leader in engineering and construction of complex charging networks for fleets nationwide, to deploy the high-power charging infrastructure both on-route and in the depot.

The program will operate across the NYCT system, with the option to rapidly recharge buses at either end of the route. The on-route rapid charging system used by New Flyer and Siemens allows battery-electric buses to operate continuously without returning to a depot for recharging. Similar New Flyer buses and charging systems are anticipated to follow in Los Angeles, Portland, Salt Lake City, and Boston in 2018.
. . .
 
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