kEV
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 330597

Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:13 pm

Hello all,

I just purchased my first Leaf CPO from a dealer a few days ago in Bartlett, Tennessee. 2015 SV with 4900 miles, 12 bars. Got a great price too. I live in St. Louis, MO

I also just used Leaf Spy last night to check things out (I didn't have the app or OBDII connector when purchasing). When scanning for the first time, the outside temp was 13F and the SOH showed 87.35%, AHr of 54.24, Hx 79.27%, 8 QCs, 366 L1/L2. These numbers seem very low for a car with only 4900 miles on it. I also did a QC on the way home the night before I used Leaf Spy.

I know low temps decreased the capacity, but is this low of a SOH normal for such low miles? Any suspicion from the dealer?

Thanks.

Kevin

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9222
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:30 pm

The car probably came from a hot climate. That would be low for a 2015 from a cool climate.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kEV
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 330597

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:33 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:The car probably came from a hot climate. That would be low for a 2015 from a cool climate.


I forgot to add, the previous owner was the dealer. They used it as a demo vehicle, so it remained in Tennessee the whole time.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9222
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:52 pm

Sounds like a classic example of what can happen when a car sits at 100% in hot weather a lot. Ironically, being neglected by the dealership is better for most Leafs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kEV
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 330597

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:16 pm

So what do you suggest about how to move forward?

- Is there anything that can be done about the battery degradation with the dealer?
- If the battery has been degraded by misuse up until my ownership and then I start to treat it well (e.g. charging between 20-80% in cool temperatures, etc), does the degradation slow down or will it degrade in a linear fashion?
- Should I try to be conservative with the battery at this point or try to beat it down hoping to get it below 9 bars with the three years remaining on the warranty?

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9222
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:12 pm

Since it is a "Lizard Pack" and you don't live in a really hot climate, pamper it. Charge to 100% only when you will both be driving it soon afterward and you really need the range. Otherwise try for 70-90% by the Guestimation method (find how much charge gets added per hour with your charging setup, and unplug it manually). Also try to avoid charging when the temp "gauge" on the dash reads 6 temp bars or more.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kEV
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 330597

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:56 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Since it is a "Lizard Pack" and you don't live in a really hot climate, pamper it. Charge to 100% only when you will both be driving it soon afterward and you really need the range. Otherwise try for 70-90% by the Guestimation method (find how much charge gets added per hour with your charging setup, and unplug it manually). Also try to avoid charging when the temp "gauge" on the dash reads 6 temp bars or more.


Thanks for this info. Does the battery degradation slow down if I start to pamper it?

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 am

There is no need to pamper it. My experience is that LEAF Spy numbers drop when I drive the 2015 gently on suburban streets and do partial charges. The numbers increase back to normal (with slow decline over long time period) when I return to my normal freeway driving with deep discharge and 100% L2 overnight charging. The 2011 was just a steady (much more rapid) decline over time (both original and replacement batteries). DCQC also improves numbers and increases the actual energy the 2015 battery will store (as measured by revenue accuracy meter on input to EVSE). My guess is that you have some permanent battery deterioration due to temperature and time and some additional indicated deterioration (low LEAF Spy numbers) due to frequent short charges, shallow discharges, and short surface street test drives by the dealer and possible customers. Your LEAF Spy numbers should improve with normal daily driving and overnight L2 charging. Try to discharge to VLBW (very low battery warning with --- indicated for remaining range) before an overnight charge once in a while to give the LBC (lithium battery controller, also called BMS for battery management system) a chance to learn the current battery capacity. Occaisional DCQCs would be good if you have convenient access to chargers. Don't be afraid to charge to 100% overnight if you are driving it every day. If you are going to park it for more than a day or two, try to park with 70% SOC or less. It sounds like a nice car and it should serve you well unless you need absolute maximum range of a new battery.

As a comparison, here are my Leaf Spy numbers from last night: AHr=46.29, SOH=74.54%, Hx=52.49%, QC=125, L1/L2=871, and odometer=53,808 miles. My car has been charged to 100% nearly every charge cycle and spent its entire life in Phoenix, AZ. The original battery has lost 2 capacity bars, but this is much better than the 2011 which was down to 8 capacity bars and had the original battery replaced after 27 months of use. The replacement battery had been down to 11 bars for a while by the time of the crash after a total of 42 months and 50,422 miles (15 months and about 15,000 miles on the replacement battery).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9222
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:35 pm

Gerry, why would you want to tell him to drive his car like you do, when you are down to 74% capacity? You live in a hotter climate, but his isn't exactly Seattle, either... My advice remains to treat the car as gently as is easily possible.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

tattoogunman
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:07 pm

I dunno, it's a '15 with very low miles and should still have the full manufacturer warranty remaining on it. I also say to drive it like normal and the '15 had what? 96 months/100,000 mile warranty on the battery right? Capacity was 60 months/60,000 miles correct? I'm in the same boat as a used Leaf will be my only realistic option down the road to get into an EV and I had planned on doing what the OP did. My plan is to save enough so that I can buy one used in cash and then set aside battery pack money for down the road (as much as I really wish that wasn't necessary).

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”