2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

SageBrush said:

Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity

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If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

I looked into the battery stuff and it seems like the complaints are overblown. The battery won't last as long as a Tesla's (their battery chemistry is fascinating), but it's not the disaster that people online seem to think. If anyone is interested, I'll try to find a link to a study I read about Leaf battery longevity.

The 30kwh battery problem isn't exaggerated - it depends on the local climate. Where it's almost always cool, the pack does fine. Where it isn't cool the degradation is unacceptable and rapid.

I would love to have the quick charge availability that they have in Japan. In fact, the degradation problem would have less of an impact. I can also understand why someone from there would not need the larger range batteries compared to us in the US. So, someone in Japan could have a very different view even just based on those two things.

jonathanfields4ever said:

SageBrush said:

Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity

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If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

.

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You can't argue a point with another that uses something that doesn't exist as their ideal (e.g, Tesla 3). The true time to evaluate the value of the T3 would be after 2 years after the car has been in drivers' hands. Right now, the Leaf is real, and the T3 is vaporware....

LeftieBiker said:

The 30kwh battery problem isn't exaggerated - it depends on the local climate. Where it's almost always cool, the pack does fine. Where it isn't cool the degradation is unacceptable and rapid.

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Not really. There are people in cool climates, NW Oregon, Minnesota for example that are seeing unacceptable rates of degradation. Climate matters but its only a part of the formula.

jonathanfields4ever said:

SageBrush said:

Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity

Click to expand...

If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

I looked into the battery stuff and it seems like the complaints are overblown. The battery won't last as long as a Tesla's (their battery chemistry is fascinating), but it's not the disaster that people online seem to think. If anyone is interested, I'll try to find a link to a study I read about Leaf battery longevity.

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The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars that represent a small number of LEAFs out there. No doubt there are ones we don't know about simply due to the large % the 12th bar represents and the fact that most don't need most of the range the LEAF offers on a regular basis so they simply are not aware enough to know they "should" be complaining.

But there IS an issue.

1) Nissan has failed to provide the uninformed driver the tools for proper BMS

2) We should have had 90% (or something less than full) as a DEFAULT charging option. Full charges along with the disclaimer reminders for those who need it and despite what we think, that is rare

3) Essentially part two of the above; DoD was too severe. We don't actually have a 30 kwh pack. In reality the jump was barely 5 kwh from the slightly larger than 24 kwh pack to the barely over 29½ kwh pack.

4) We can blame climate and it does play a role but not the primary role. Sadly, the primary role in degradation is human intervention. My dearly departed LEAF exhibited acceptable degradation (1-2 % per 10,000 miles) in the same region where other LEAFs had 3-5X the rate of degradation. I was well on my way to eliminating a lot of the suspects in the degradation game. There is huge benefits to living in the middle of the pack. That is inconvenient for sure, but I drove over 26,000 miles in the first year doing exactly that including a period of over 7 weeks where I NEVER charged to full on L2 one single time. It was during the hottest part of Summer when the major components of degradation were at their peak; High SOC, time and heat.


So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

*Get a LEAF with less range, less convenient charging (although the inconvenience isn't that bad in my area) more tech for MUCH less money and manually handle the BMS chores myself since there is no help coming from Nissan.

Bravo.... DaveinOlyWA ...

jonathanfields4ever said:

SageBrush said:

Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity

Click to expand...

If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.
.

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You have it backwards. I only cared to correct the silly posts like yours that label the Tesla Model 3 a 'luxury car' when it is smack dab in the middle of the msrp range of the LEAF '18 yet offers so much more value in terms of range, charging and battery quality.

Beyond that, I applaud every person who buys an EV, particularly if you run it with clean energy.

DaveinOlyWA said:

The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars
So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

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You wear blinders. The 30 kWh pack is doing worse than the 24 kWh pack, and the 24 kWh sucked for almost everybody outside of cool climates. That is magnitudes more than a few dozen cars.

The Tesla Model 3 is $36k and will retain 80-90% of its new range in 15 years if it follows in the footsteps of its brethren. That is more than 2x longer than the 24 kwh LEAF, let alone the 30 kWh LEAF which is worse. AND it starts out with 46% greater range than the 40 kWh LEAF '18. AND it has a markedly superior QC availability and charge rate. It is beyond laughable to suggest that the LEAF gives anywhere near the value as the Model 3 or that it is inexpensive compared to the Model 3 on a per mile basis.

You want to lease a Nissan ? Go right ahead. All the best. But cut the BS

SageBrush said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars
So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

Click to expand...

You wear blinders. The 30 kWh pack is doing worse than the 24 kWh pack, and the 24 kWh sucked for almost everybody outside of cool climates. That is magnitudes more than a few dozen cars.

The Tesla Model 3 is $36k and will retain 80-90% of its new range in 15 years if it follows in the footsteps of its brethren. That is more than 2x longer than the 24 kwh LEAF, let alone the 30 kWh LEAF which is worse. AND it starts out with 46% greater range than the 40 kWh LEAF '18. AND it has a markedly superior QC availability and charge rate. It is beyond laughable to suggest that the LEAF gives anywhere near the value as the Model 3 or that it is inexpensive compared to the Model 3 on a per mile basis.

You want to buy a Nissan ? Go right ahead. All the best. But cut the BS

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All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range. Whose BS is deeper?

DaveinOlyWA said:

All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range.

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There is merit to that statement, inasmuch as I view the Model 3 as a full time, complete ICE replacement.

Superchargers are in general (after correcting for terrain) placed ~ 125 miles apart;
Winter and non-dry roads increase fuel consumption a good 20%;
Even a long lived Tesla can be expected to have 10% battery range degradation after 10 years of ownership

You may make do with less along with a daily quality time spent at a ChaDemo, but the depreciation rate on your car tells the tale.
Remind me again what your monthly and down payments are going to be on your LEAF '18, *with* your employee discount ?
As an aside, the '18 LEAF can certainly fill the role of a secondary car in the family quite well ... but I can attest to a markedly cheaper and depreciated 2013 LEAF doing the job just as well.

And so long as you care to highlight predicated assumptions, I'll list yours:
1. Cool, maritime climate
2. Extensive ChaDemo infrastructure
3. Willingness to QC at ~ 40 kW
4. Lease (so that the anticipated battery degradation is Nissan's problem.)

SageBrush said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range.

Click to expand...

There is merit to that statement, inasmuch as I view the Model 3 as a full time, complete ICE replacement.

Superchargers are in general (after correcting for terrain) placed ~ 125 miles apart;
Winter and non-dry roads increase fuel consumption a good 20%;
Even a long lived Tesla can be expected to have 10% battery range degradation after 10 years of ownership

You may make do with less along with a daily quality time spent at a ChaDemo, but the depreciation rate on your car tells the tale.
Remind me again what your monthly and down payments are going to be on your LEAF '18, *with* your employee discount ?
As an aside, the '18 LEAF can certainly fill the role of a secondary car in the family quite well ... but I can attest to a markedly cheaper and depreciated 2013 LEAF doing the job just as well.

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No lease terms yet so who knows? The reality is this whole thread is baseless. We already knew the two cars occupy completely different spaces sharing only their method of motivation.

You would be blind to not see the LEAF SV with tech will cost in the mid 20's while the base level T3 WILL BE $36,200 and likely with half a fed credit (I don't even qualify for that much) so my contention the LEAF with more features is more than $10,000 cheaper "to me" stands and you will have proof shortly.

In my review of the T3, I stated its THE only EV on the market today that is worth the asking MSRP. The only one. The Bolt is overpriced just as the LEAF is but then again, neither sells for MSRP either. So if you got the money, do Tesla. The T3 has huge benefits and huge compromises. The LEAF is no different. But neither is any car of any type. We trade this for that, acquiesce convenience for cash, etc. That is how it works.

But extrapolating expectations based on a very different LEAF to the current LEAF is a bit over the top. I am doing the same thing assuming the 40 kwh LEAF will be just as fine as my 30 kwh LEAF was. I am confident I can handle it. Is there a need for anything else?

DaveinOlyWA said:

No lease terms yet so who knows?

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Google knows, because Nissan is advertising:

LEAF SV
$356 a month
36 month term
$3,979 Down payment
---
$16,439
$456 a month before TTL, excess wear and tear, acquisition, return, and dealer fees.
https://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-lease-deal-229-per-month-4000/



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The stripper 'S' Model is $229 a month and otherwise the same terms.

powersurge said:

You can't argue a point with another that uses something that doesn't exist as their ideal (e.g, Tesla 3). The true time to evaluate the value of the T3 would be after 2 years after the car has been in drivers' hands. Right now, the Leaf is real, and the T3 is vaporware....

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:?: You really need a reality check. You lose any remaining credibility with such silly statements.

In the US, the 3 is already in the hands of (non-employee) customers. Mine would have probably been scheduled for delivery next week had I placed the order on Jan 4 when I got the invite. The 2018 LEAF is temporarily delayed, but should be in customer's hands this month.

SageBrush said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

No lease terms yet so who knows?

Click to expand...

Google knows, because Nissan is advertising:

LEAF SV
$356 a month
36 month term
$3,979 Down payment
---
$16,439
$456 a month before TTL, excess wear and tear, acquisition, return, and dealer fees.
https://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-lease-deal-229-per-month-4000/



--------
The 'S' Model is $229 a month and otherwise the same terms.

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That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP

DaveinOlyWA said:

That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP

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No two ways about it: you and Powersurge live in a delusion.

Tesla estimated delivery dates for me--
Colorado resident, neither employee or current owner






You can always be suspect of Tesla estimates, but this photo (from yesterday I think) is of rows of Model 3s in Denver before they are delivered to customers.

SageBrush said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP

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No two ways about it: you and Powersurge live in a delusion.

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This entire thread ha been a delusional exercise, in that a Tesla Model 3 SR does not actually exists at this time.

SageBrush said:

jonathanfields4ever said:

SageBrush said:

Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity

Click to expand...

If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.
.

Click to expand...

You have it backwards. I only cared to correct the silly posts like yours that label the Tesla Model 3 a 'luxury car' when it is smack dab in the middle of the msrp range of the LEAF '18 yet offers so much more value in terms of range, charging and battery quality.

Beyond that, I applaud every person who buys an EV, particularly if you run it with clean energy.

Click to expand...

I never said it was a “luxury vehicle.” In fact, I said it was silly to call it that if you look back at my post.

I offered evidence of getting a new Leaf for $7K less than a Model 3, but you didn’t like that because I’m in a different country.

So I pointed out that some people would prefer a car available much sooner for a few thousand less, making the Leaf a decent option over the Model 3. You said I shouldn’t “complain” about availability when I could have reserved sooner and gave us a vague statement about the window for getting yours “..in 2018.”

So I asked what that window was and pointed out that giving Tesla, a company famous for missing deadlines and billions in debt, a thousand dollars is a big ask. You responded by basically calling me poor.

Now it comes out that your car is coming between September and November thus proving the point you were trying to dodge all along.

You never wanted this thread to be about the differences between these two cars. You like the Model 3 better and you wanted people to agree with you.

If we’re going with past is precedent, the purchase/lease threads here confirm that few pay listed MSRP or advertised lease terms. We paid way under advertised terms for our Leaf lease.

All of these things remain negotiable with Nissan dealers. It will be hard to get a bargain the first few months of most new generation vehicles, but thereafter no reason to believe the future will be different with the Leaf.