Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

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GRA said:
...At least they've recognized that almost no one would buy the BEV, when there's so many other options that provide better value for the money, now and in the near future.
Silly speculation. At the right price, Honda could sell as many as it wanted to.

Both the BEV and PHEV are essentially conversions of the Clarity FCEV.

The BEV is a compliance car, and may only be produced in small numbers, for a few years.

Since leases comply just as well as sales do in earning ZEV credits, Why would Honda want to sell any of them?

Think of the massive headache Toyota gave itself by selling a few k RAV4Es, and obligating itself to support those crap-mobiles for many years, at great cost.

In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or can re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
...At least they've recognized that almost no one would buy the BEV, when there's so many other options that provide better value for the money, now and in the near future.
Silly speculation.

Both the BEV and PHEV are essentially conversions of the Clarity FCEV.
I could be wrong, but ISTR that they designed the Clarity to accept any of the three powertrains (much as Kia is doing).

edatoakrun said:
The BEV is a compliance car, and may only be produced in small numbers, for a few years.
Good, we agree that it's specs so limit its market that it can't be anything else.

edatoakrun said:
Since leases comply just as well as sales do in earning ZEV credits, Why would Honda want to sell any of them?

Think of the massive headache Toyota gave itself by selling a few k RAV4Es, and obligating itself to support those crap-mobiles for many years, at great cost.

In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just send them to the crusher, if it wants to.
Yup, it's a throwaway.
 
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
..In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.
Yup, it's a throwaway.
Every ICEV you've ever owned was and is a throwaway car, as was/will be every HEV, small-pack PHEV, and FCEV that will ever be built.

Only BEVs have components with substantial second-life value, their battery packs.
In fact, in some ways it's depressing to think my 2011 LEAF pack could well survive me...
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
..In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.
Yup, it's a throwaway.
Every ICEV you've ever owned was and is a throwaway.
We have different definitions of throwaway. A car's a durable good, and I expect it to last me a minimum of 15 years barring major accident (my Forester just turned 15 today, and given its light usage I expect it to easily make it to 20 or 25, i.e. long enough to get me to a ZEV that meets my needs, assuming I even buy another car instead of opting for some other mobility solution). A throwaway implies that something is low cost, low value and is expected to last such a short period of time that you really don't care what happens to it, and will discard it without a second thought and replace it with something equally temporary.

edatoakrun said:
Only BEVs have components with substantial second-life value, their battery packs.
In fact, in some ways it's depressing to think my 2011 LEAF pack could well survive me...
Depends on the price of new battery packs when the time comes to re-purpose them, along with the costs of doing so. I'm all for re-using equipment, but have serious doubts about the viability of ex-car battery packs given that Li-ion (and beyond) batteries are so immature, and still seeing relatively rapid price reductions. If weight, space and cost aren't serious factors, then maybe.
 
Via GCR:
Why a Fiat 500e driver got a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell as his next green car: low cost
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rity-fuel-cell-as-his-next-green-car-low-cost

. . . Baccus called the Fiat 500e "a great car" that he "really enjoyed driving," one that made it a pleasure to drive every day. But, he admitted, "it wasn't a car for everyone"—in particular his spouse, who simply didn't like riding in it. He wanted a bigger car that was still an alternative-fuel vehicle, and he was ready for one that wasn't 100-percent electric. . . .

Last June, when he moved from a house with off-street parking to a rented condo, the building owner wasn't open to installing an electric-car charging station. While he has access to a charging station at work, it's shared with others. "On some days," he said, "I'd have to email a coworker to ask when they were done charging to let me know. . . ."

Also, running costs in pricey Southern California always matter. Baccus built a spreadsheet of monthly costs for alternative green cars, from a high-fuel-efficiency conventional Honda Civic through hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and hydrogen fuel-cell cars. The top two cars for lowest costs per month were the Toyota Mirai ($406) and Honda Clarity Fuel Cell ($410), against the $416 for the basic Civic sedan and a whopping $530 for an Audi A3 e-tron plug-in hybrid hatchback.

"The deals on the Honda Clarity and Toyota Mirai were just too good to pass up," Baccus said, "plus I wanted to try hydrogen and see how that would go."

Plug-in hybrids, he explained, were less practical choices because they would suffer from the same lack of access to charging as a battery-electric vehicle would. Baccus said he chose the Clarity Fuel Cell over the Mirai because he liked the Clarity's looks, and especially its interior design, better. . . .

The $369 monthly lease includes not only the fuel allowance but all maintenance, a very competitive price for a premium mid-size sedan with numerous luxury features. With fuel free for all the miles he expects to cover and California's $5,000 clean-car rebate, Baccus calculated, his overall monthly cost for the hydrogen Clarity came in lower than a $169 monthly lease on a Honda Civic compact sedan.

Fueling up isn't an issue: "I have one station next to my kids’ school that I pass every morning," he said, "and another across from my work. . . ."

It's full of technology the Fiat didn't have, but drives "like an pure electric—quiet with a lot of instant power—that has with better range." And, he said, it eliminates the need for his family to have access to a charging station at home.
 
Why a Fiat 500e driver got a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell as his next green car: low cost:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115182_why-a-fiat-500e-driver-got-a-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-as-his-next-green-car-low-cost
 
cwerdna said:
Why a Fiat 500e driver got a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell as his next green car: low cost:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115182_why-a-fiat-500e-driver-got-a-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-as-his-next-green-car-low-cost
It's the drug-pusher approach to sales. If you want someone to purchase something which is expensive and bad for them, you provide it for free or at a greatly-reduced price. In this case, the fuel is free and the vehicle is highly subsidized by both the manufacturer and the government.

This driver's gain is everyone else's loss.
 
longer range. ha. that's a good one. driving the full range of a hydrogen car will get you stranded. you know, 'cause there are so many places to re-fuel after that initial "fill" (sarcasm). Travel cross-country in one yet?

good grief we live in sad times when people like this think this stunt is a "great deal".

I've seen the Clarity EV in person here in OR. ugly. why wouldn't Honda make an EV Civic with it's fancy new stylish sheetmetal? Oh that's right they don't want to cash out of the ICE world. (face palm). ICE is limiting and EVs are your future.

C'mon. get out there and compete, Honda (or insert ALL other ICE mfgs name here).

I don't get it. why be on the losing side of the EV revolution? As if the physics and math are going to suddenly favor hydrogen? Pipe dreams.
 
I test drove the clarity hybrid and I have to say that I really like it. Problem is, Honda is not discounting the car at all and they are not passing along the $7500 tax credit on a lease. In fact, the lease quote I got was $717.36/mo for a 36/12 with $1000 down on a Touring ($37,390). That didn't include tax, tag, title or dealer fees. I can see with "Clarity" that they are insane.
 
finman100 said:
I've seen the Clarity EV in person here in OR. ugly.
Just looked at a picture. This is partly why hybrid and EV are looked down on by much of the public. Thing looks ugly as hell, and covering part of your rear wheel with sheet metal didn't look cool decades ago and still doesn't now.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
finman100 said:
I've seen the Clarity EV in person here in OR. ugly.
Just looked at a picture. This is partly why hybrid and EV are looked down on by much of the public. Thing looks ugly as hell, and covering part of your rear wheel with sheet metal didn't look cool decades ago and still doesn't now.
Yes, why Honda and Toyota felt they needed to make seriously ugly AFVs is beyond me, but it certainly doesn't help sales prospects. OTOH, this past week I passed by Toyota and Honda dealers, and there had to be 50-100 Primes on the former's lot, and 10 or a dozen Clarity PHEVs on the latter's, so they obviously think there's a market here. I didn't see any of the BEV or FCEV Clarity versions, but I wasn't looking that hard. IMO the Prime's the best looking of the bunch, and the only one that I could buy without doing so in spite of its looks. The regular 4th gen. Prius, the Mirai and any of the Claritys fall into the latter category. The Clarity's looks are at least partly due to aero considerations. but if people avoid buying it because they think it's ugly it doesn't matter how efficient it is.

However, the Clarity PHEV's January sales (594) are fairly brisk, and as expected far better than the BEV (203), as aside from the looks the car provides good competition for the Volt. IEVS still isn't providing any sales info for the FCEV. One source other than IEVS shows 853 total U.S. Clarity sales for January, so if IEVS numbers for the BEV and PHEV are correct, that would mean 56 FCEVs were leased.
 
finman100 said:
longer range. ha. that's a good one. driving the full range of a hydrogen car will get you stranded. you know, 'cause there are so many places to re-fuel after that initial "fill" (sarcasm). Travel cross-country in one yet? <snip>
Assuming you're one of the rare people who needs to do this, that's why you get 7 days of free rentals a year. Besides, why drive X-C when you could fly?
 
Honda leased about 50% as many H2 FCV Clarities in 2017 as they imagined they would: FCEV's [sic] Full Year 2017:
EV Sales said:
Honda Clarity FCEV - 524 units were registered in 2017, well above the 2016 numbers, its landing year, but below expectations (1.000 units in 2017). But the interesting thing here is that Honda, maybe realizing the upcoming disaster, decided to make the car available also as PHEV and BEV. And both Plug-in versions are outselling the Fuel Cell...
More likely Honda doesn't WANT to make any more H2 FCV versions because of how much they lose each time the lease one. Alternatively, they simply CAN'T make more than that.
 
RegGuheert said:
Honda leased about 50% as many H2 FCV Clarities in 2017 as they imagined they would: FCEV's [sic] Full Year 2017:
EV Sales said:
Honda Clarity FCEV - 524 units were registered in 2017, well above the 2016 numbers, its landing year, but below expectations (1.000 units in 2017). But the interesting thing here is that Honda, maybe realizing the upcoming disaster, decided to make the car available also as PHEV and BEV. And both Plug-in versions are outselling the Fuel Cell...
More likely Honda doesn't WANT to make any more H2 FCV versions because of how much they lose each time the lease one. Alternatively, they simply CAN'T make more than that.
As noted upthread, Honda claimed they had a software issue that needed n update, so they'd stopped shipping them while doing so. Who knows whether or not that's the truth.
 
Yesterday I replaced another ICEV with the '18 Clarity Touring PHEV. I'm very impressed with this car.

My original plan was to get the '18 Leaf SL. But the range was still causing my wife too much anxiety regarding my commute. I'm convinced I could have made it work. But then there was this nagging recollection as to why I'm not driving our current Leaf for my commute. Back in 2013, I almost got the Volt but went for the Leaf because it could handle my commute. Then job changed and my commute is now minimum 63 miles one way, and often 80+ when I seek to avoid traffic with no workplace charging. I would have gone Bolt except too much about that car was wrong. And I concluded I didn't really want to wait until Leaf starts selling 200+ mile EVs. I like the '18 Leaf. But having to 'make it work' while stressing out my wife and then worrying about degradation impacting my ability to 'make it work', and I decided to go with PHEV as the next ICEV replacement.

Of the PHEVs, the Clarity has a really good ride, power, car size, interior and styling. I can see why Honda sells so many cars.

Of the typical new car safety features, the only thing I'm wishing it had is the blind spot assist and the rear cross-traffic safety that a lot of the competitors are offering. And for blind spot, it does have a camera based system addressing the right side. Jury is still out on whether that is an improvement, not as good, adequate or what.

Part of me really wanted to go with the Prius Prime based on how happy we've been with a HIghlander Hybrid we have. But looking at it again, the styling is just a bit too funky and the interior wasn't as nice and the power/performance wasn't there. Yes, it would have been a fine car. But I felt that the Clarity was better for the money.

At least it is still a good step forward and will greatly reduce the amount of gas that I burn on my commute. And when I run errands around town, it has plenty of EV only range to not burn any gas and be powered solely by my home solar panels.
 
February Clarity sales, per IEVS:

PHEV, 881
FCEV, 243 (vs. 27 last Feb. Apparently, they got the software issue resolved, and the FCEV is available again).
BEV, 104

As expected the PHEV is the top seller, and as at least Honda suspected would happen, the FCEV outsold the BEV. The Clarity FCEV even outsold (leased) the Mirai, which moved 166 in February. I expect the new Hyundai Nexo FCEV to outsell both when it arrives, assuming it's priced competitively.
 
March Clarity sales, per IEVS:

PHEV, 1,061
FCEV, 121
BEV, 48

Sales of the FCEV (down from 243) and BEV (down from 104) both sank in March compared to February, but the PHEV set a new monthly record with. up from 881 last month and 898 in December. The BEV looks likely to continue sinking into oblivion. The FCEV outsold (leased) the Mirai again (83), although the numbers for both were small.
 
GRA said:
March Clarity sales, per IEVS:

FCEV, 121
Just like Toyota with the Mirai, Honda sold exactly half as many H2 FCV Clarities as last month.

It's good to see the numbers moving in the right direction for these things!
 
DarthPuppy said:
Yesterday I replaced another ICEV with the '18 Clarity Touring PHEV. I'm very impressed with this car.
Sounds like a good choice; I hope it works well for a long time.

I chose the Prius Prime. I don't think the Clarity was available when I bought my car but I still would have bought the Toyota today for the reliability and outstanding value and since fossil fool use is lower in the Prime for my use pattern. I suppose that means I'm more of a Civic/Corolla type person than an Accord/Camry. And spending less on the Prime leaves more money for my Model 3 when it arrives ;-)
 
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