Tesla Supercharger Network

sparky said:

Speaking of magical thinking:
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/15/usa-gets-1st-non-tesla-high-power-ev-charging-station-evgo/
"LOS ANGELES – Dec. 15, 2016 – EVgo, operator of the nation’s largest network of public electric vehicle (EV) fast charging stations, today announced it has broken ground on the very first High-Power U.S. public charging station in Baker, California, home of the World’s Tallest Thermometer. EVgo is turning up the heat on EV charging with a station capable of charging at a rate of up to 350kW....
...EVgo expects the project to be completed by June 2017."

Nope. Maybe Feb 2018?
Not exactly news to people who bought a Bolt in 2017, thinking they might be able to actually drive it to Vegas before the New Year.

Throwing rocks is easy. Delivering useful stuff is hard. I hope EVgo gets this going soon. The EV community would benefit greatly if the other charge network operators missed goals the way Tesla does.

Click to expand...

I’ve driven a Bolt EV to Vegas. The trick is to fully charge in Victorville and keep your speed down. I drove in mild summer weather and stayed down around 60 mph and had enough range to make it to Vegas itself with no problem. At faster speeds or in winter with heater usage you might need to plan on stopping for a charge in Primm, Nevada.

In any case, EVgo’s new chargers in Baker will make it easier to do. EVgo now says Baker will be up and running during the first quarter of 2018.

Also, here’s a map of Electrify America’s planned highway charging network:

http://www.hybridcars.com/new-year-brings-ultra-fast-charging-us-highways/

JeffN said:

sparky said:

Speaking of magical thinking:
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/15/usa-gets-1st-non-tesla-high-power-ev-charging-station-evgo/
"LOS ANGELES – Dec. 15, 2016 – EVgo, operator of the nation’s largest network of public electric vehicle (EV) fast charging stations, today announced it has broken ground on the very first High-Power U.S. public charging station in Baker, California, home of the World’s Tallest Thermometer. EVgo is turning up the heat on EV charging with a station capable of charging at a rate of up to 350kW....
...EVgo expects the project to be completed by June 2017."

Nope. Maybe Feb 2018?
Not exactly news to people who bought a Bolt in 2017, thinking they might be able to actually drive it to Vegas before the New Year.

Throwing rocks is easy. Delivering useful stuff is hard. I hope EVgo gets this going soon. The EV community would benefit greatly if the other charge network operators missed goals the way Tesla does.

Click to expand...

I’ve driven a Bolt EV to Vegas. The trick is to fully charge in Victorville and keep your speed down. I drove in mild summer weather and stayed down around 60 mph and had enough range to make it to Vegas itself with no problem. At faster speeds or in winter with heater usage you might need to plan on stopping for a charge in Primm, Nevada.

In any case, EVgo’s new chargers in Baker will make it easier to do. EVgo now says Baker will be up and running during the first quarter of 2018.

Also, here’s a map of Electrify America’s planned highway charging network:

http://www.hybridcars.com/new-year-brings-ultra-fast-charging-us-highways/

Click to expand...

This is an awesome discussion, keep it up. But perhaps it belongs in another thread. Anyway willing to keep us posted on data on Non-Tesla (i.e. CHAdeMO / CCS) quick charging network growth?

Alex Roy just did the Cannonball Run in a Model 3 in a little over 50 hours. Curious what time you could do in a Bolt?

A pretty busy Feb so far even tho it is 'winter'. ie. 32F in Sheffield, OH and 27F in Fishers, IN currently.

hyperionmark said:

Alex Roy just did the Cannonball Run in a Model 3 in a little over 50 hours. Curious what time you could do in a Bolt?

Click to expand...

I calculated 6 days.

TonyWilliams said:

hyperionmark said:

Alex Roy just did the Cannonball Run in a Model 3 in a little over 50 hours. Curious what time you could do in a Bolt?

Click to expand...

I calculated 6 days.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Assuming good conditions, you aren't waiting on chargers, and that none are broken down?

hyperionmark said:

TonyWilliams said:

hyperionmark said:

Alex Roy just did the Cannonball Run in a Model 3 in a little over 50 hours. Curious what time you could do in a Bolt?

Click to expand...

I calculated 6 days.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Assuming good conditions, you aren't waiting on chargers, and that none are broken down?

Click to expand...

Here's a really simplified calculation:

Assuming best case scenario, the Bolt can replenish about 100 miles (EPA) in 30 minutes. That's 200 miles/hr.

Google says it is 2,777 miles from LA to NYC: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/LA/...0b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753.

Assuming you start with a full charge, and always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it, and never had to wait (none of which would happen in the real world), you have (2777-238)/200 = 12.7 hours of charging.

Google maps says that the drive is 42 hours.

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.

In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

GetOffYourGas said:

always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it,...

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.
In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

Click to expand...

Haha, come on... what a ridiculous theoretical post.

scottf200 said:

GetOffYourGas said:

always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it,...

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.
In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

Click to expand...

Haha, come on... what a ridiculous theoretical post.

Click to expand...

I thought it was interesting that even theoretically perfect setup they can't even beat an actual run in a Model 3 (in the middle of winter, in the middle of the winters biggest storm).

palmermd said:

scottf200 said:

GetOffYourGas said:

always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it,...

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.
In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

Click to expand...

Haha, come on... what a ridiculous theoretical post.

Click to expand...

I thought it was interesting that even theoretically perfect setup they can't even beat an actual run in a Model 3 (in the middle of winter, in the middle of the winters biggest storm).

Click to expand...

Related charts below:

Supercharger speed: 116kW -- Tony Williams TMC post -- https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-116kw.107619

1 February 2017 @ Kettleman City, California USA

Blue below is miles added. At 40 minutes still doing 46kW after initial max of 116kW and at 79% SOC (about 240 miles).



Comparison

(see orange Charge Rate(kW) line -- about 35 to 45 kW
and yellow State Of Charge (SOC) line below
after a 40 minute charge (5:27-6:07) ):
https://bro05.blogspot.com/2017/03/fast-charging-experiences-with-bolt.html

First of all, if you were going to drive cross country in a Bolt, wouldn't you need to stop at a Chiropractor every few hundred miles because of your butt pain?

Randy said:

First of all, if you were going to drive cross country in a Bolt, wouldn't you need to stop at a Chiropractor every few hundred miles because of your butt pain?

Click to expand...

No, because most people do not have a problem with the seats. Only some do. So... we would be eating and using the restroom instead.

scottf200 said:

GetOffYourGas said:

always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it,...

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.
In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

Click to expand...

Haha, come on... what a ridiculous theoretical post.

Click to expand...

Glad you found it useful?

I gave an absolute lower bound for the trip. Obviously my assumptions are unrealistic, and I tried to make that perfectly clear.

The Bolt faces two problems for long trips - charger availability and charging speed. IMO, the former (availability) is far more of an issue than the latter (speed). The former will improve over time. The latter will likely improve in updates to future model years.

The very question itself is only of limited value in the first place. I rarely drive more than 300 miles in a single day. I haven't driven more than 600 in a day since I moved back east in 2006, and drove from CA to NY. I am planning a 500+ mile trip this summer, down to VA. I fully intend to take the Bolt. I will have no problem convincing the family to take a 30 minute break every so often - no need to make it a "cannonball run" style drive.

Believe me, I wish I had access to something like the Supercharger Network. But people make it out to be an absolute deal killer for travelling with any non-Tesla BEV. It isn't.

GetOffYourGas said:

scottf200 said:

GetOffYourGas said:

always hit a 150A charger exactly where you needed it,...

If absolutely every condition was perfect (and assuming you averaged EPA efficiency), the Bolt could do it in 55 hours.
In reality, Tony's prediction is more likely to be the case today.

Click to expand...

Haha, come on... what a ridiculous theoretical post.

Click to expand...

...
The very question itself is only of limited value in the first place. I rarely drive more than 300 miles in a single day. I haven't driven more than 600 in a day since I moved back east in 2006, and drove from CA to NY. I am planning a 500+ mile trip this summer, down to VA. I fully intend to take the Bolt. I will have no problem convincing the family to take a 30 minute break every so often - no need to make it a "cannonball run" style drive.

Believe me, I wish I had access to something like the Supercharger Network. But people make it out to be an absolute deal killer for travelling with any non-Tesla BEV. It isn't.

Click to expand...

That's a fair response. One of the biggest fears/annoyances for me would be how few 'stalls'/plugs there are at each location. You could easily be behind people who are not even around their cars to move them when done. Or you could be ICEd. These problems would really screw up your planning (and test your/families patient). Much much less of a problem at SuperChargers.

Say, I just logged into PlugShare and noticed they have a "Trip Planner". Perhaps that will be useful? Article on it: https://recargo.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/29000019386-trip-planner-guide-tips

GetOffYourGas said:

I am planning a 500+ mile trip this summer, down to VA. I fully intend to take the Bolt.

Click to expand...

On our trip to MD last summer, there were combo CHAdeMO/CCS chargers in several places right next to the SuperCharger installations (e.g., along the NJ Turnpike). Usually it was 2 combos vs. 8 SuperCharger stalls. I got the impression that a Bolt could very well so the same drive we were doing (albeit slower).

jlv said:

On our trip to MD last summer, there were combo CHAdeMO/CCS chargers in several places right next to the SuperCharger installations (e.g., along the NJ Turnpike). Usually it was 2 combos vs. 8 SuperCharger stalls. I got the impression that a Bolt could very well so the same drive we were doing (albeit slower).

Click to expand...

I think it would be pretty selective routes and likely twice as long.

Plugshare below:

Those comparison pictures are all that needs said.

jlv said:

GetOffYourGas said:

I am planning a 500+ mile trip this summer, down to VA. I fully intend to take the Bolt.

Click to expand...

On our trip to MD last summer, there were combo CHAdeMO/CCS chargers in several places right next to the SuperCharger installations (e.g., along the NJ Turnpike). Usually it was 2 combos vs. 8 SuperCharger stalls. I got the impression that a Bolt could very well so the same drive we were doing (albeit slower).

Click to expand...

That would require taking the NJ Turnpike - no way am I doing that. I'm coming from Syracuse, so I'll be traveling through PA instead. The only real tricky park is Syracuse-to-Philly. There is a welcome center in NY with a CCS charger, but I'll have to do a U-turn to get to it (technically, get off the highway in PA, turn around, and go back into NY). I am heavily dependent on that charger being operational and available. Once I'm at Philly, I'll drive through the DelMarVa peninsula, which is well covered.

Sorry for the confusion - I was specifically replying to GetOffYourGas about his plan to take his Bolt down the east coast. That trip might be doable. I've updated my post with the part I was responding to.


In no way was I implying the general DCFC infrastructure (CCS or otherwise) to be anything close to the SC infrastructure. The SC network is the reason I bought a Model S and it's why I've been able to put over 16K miles on it in under a year. SC is a massive competitive advantage to Tesla.

Up here in New England it seems like the SC network is growing by leaps and bounds: it sure seems like it has close to doubled in the last year.

Case in point: This past weekend I took a 250 mile trip to Maine to go skiing at a ski area we visit every year. The trip was only doable because the ski area had a destination charger. Tesla has 3 additional SC sites planned on that route that should be open when we take the trip again next year.

Yup, the supercharger network is the envy of all non-Tesla BEV drivers. But Tesla's very existence depends on it to an extent. It's one of the few reasons they have half a million Model 3 reservations while Chevy only sold 23k Bolts in 2017.

I do believe that the other automakers are coming around. Tesla has a massive head start, but I believe that CCS will catch up and overtake it. To me, it's only a question of when (5 years? 10 years?). If nothing else, it has the backing of several large corporations, as well as governments. After all, what did the CCS network look like 2 years ago? Practically non existent. It only looks sparse today because Tesla far exceeds it. But compared to a few years ago, it has just exploded.