I wonder, as well. I work for a company that has nothing to do w/automotive and I've seen at least 1 Mirai in the parking lot. It helps that there's an H2 station just down the street. I've sometimes seen other Mirais fueling up there.smkettner wrote:I would like to know how many of those FCEVs were sold (leased) to employees and related parties at a steep discount.
Probably very few, unless the cars are heavily discounted and there's some large fuel subsidy/discount.smkettner wrote: Secondly I would like to know how many actually buy out the lease and start paying out of pocket for H2.
We know the answer to that... virtually none.cwerdna wrote:Probably very few, unless the cars are heavily discounted and there's some large fuel subsidy/discount.smkettner wrote:Secondly I would like to know how many actually buy out the lease and start paying out of pocket for H2.
I had to chuckle at this one. Yeah, that's it - BEVs were only given an opening because of the slow buildout of hydrogen stations. Laughable.GRA wrote:According to Jaffery, a respectable hydrogen fueling ecosystem will not be ready until 2020. The slow buildout of the hydrogen stations has given an opening to battery electric vehicles whose sales are rapidly gaining ground.
I agree with your sentiment, but disagree with your list, particularly BMW. They are one of the definitive leaders in PHEVs and BEVs.RegGuheert wrote:Look for these companies to fall far behind those who are embracing BEVs today. Some will likely never recover.By 2021, at least 11 automakers will have rolled out hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, including Toyota, Lexus, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Other entrants in this space include Tata Motors, Pininfarina S.p.A. (owned by Mahindra & Mahindra) Riversimple and the RONN Motor Group.
For another expert's opinion on this subject, here's an excellent speech by Mate Rimac:GetOffYourGas wrote:
Audience member at 35:35 wrote:Hello Mate, and thank you for a great lecture. Uh, one question: Uh, Toyota just announced with this model, Mirai, uh, hybrid revolution, uh, the hydrogen revolution. What do you think about it?
Mate Rimac wrote:Um, there will be many transition, uh, solutions in the next decade or two decades. Uh, hybrids, plug-ins, um, range-extended vehicles, uh, hydrogen vehicles, which are electric cars with, uh, on-board generators. Um, there will be electric cars with hybrid, uh, with hydrogen range extenders. There will by hydrogen-burning internal combustion engine cars. There will be, um, fuel made out of algae, or out of biomass, or artificially-created, uh, fuel. Um.
But the end solution is electric. 'Cause it's just efficient. So you have a powerplant which is efficient. Or you have, um, I don't know, uh, wind farms, uh, or solar panels or whatever, and, uh, the best way to get that energy where it's generated into transportation is just electric.
Uh, hydrogen cars are nothing more than electric cars with a different storage system instead of batteries. Which are now maybe comparable to batteries, but as batteries improve, the other forms of transportation will have less-and-less sense. So I think, even today, hydrogen makes really no sense. It's just an engineering exercise. And as the batteries advance, the solution will be clearer and clearer. So I think that there is no way, there is no sense for any other forms of energy storage inside the car. Except, I don't know, if you manage to, to shrink down a cold fusion, so that it could fit into a car. But, otherwise, battery-electric vehicles are the only sensible choice.
Horrors, that sort of thing's never happened with any other fuel or energy source: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 72#p519172TonyWilliams wrote:http://abc7.com/hydrogen-tank-explosion ... s/3068078/
What could go wrong with millions of hydrogen tanks, all pressurized to 10,000psi, in dense environments?
This hydrogen fire in a truck resulted in 500 people being evacuated.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/02 ... -dewa.htmlDEWA and Siemens sign MoU for MW-scale solar-drive electrolysis pilot project for hydrogen production
Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA) and Siemens have signed a memorandum of understanding ( MoU) to kick-off a pilot project for the region’s first solar-driven electrolysis facility to produce hydrogen at DEWA’s outdoor testing facilities at the Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Solar Park. . . .
DEWA and Expo 2020 Dubai intend to use fuel-cell vehicles powered by the green hydrogen generated at the facility.
Perhaps it is not uniquely hazardous. It is just hazardous. The transportation of electricity is MUCH safer than the transportation of hydrogen. We have Nikola Tesla largely to thank for that!GRA wrote:There's plenty of good reasons to believe that H2 and FCEVs will never be commercially successful, but the implication that H2's a uniquely hazardous fuel is not one of them.
Safer sure, but still hazardous, as the people who used to live in Santa Rosa before their houses burned down owing to fires which at least in some cases apparently started due to lack of tree trimming near power lines are aware (investigations still underway, but PG&E is already worried and the legal vultures have already begun circling, with ads on TV trolling for customers): http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/79353 ... to-sue-pgeRegGuheert wrote:Perhaps it is not uniquely hazardous. It is just hazardous. The transportation of electricity is MUCH safer than the transportation of hydrogen.