battery heater and days subzero parking

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Why 40kWh Leaf doesn't have active cooling? Because it can only charge at 50kW rate (exactly the same as 30kWh Leaf), it can only discharge at averaged 45kW rate (top speed limitation) and it's still not suitable for long distance driving. Aka battery will not heat up enough and passive cooling is absolutely fine.

Except that it has NOT proven "absolutely fine" in the 30kwh Leaf outside of cool climates. Given that the 40kwh Leaf uses the same pack structure, with a higher energy density, we have to hope that Nissan has both increased energy density again, and at the same time solved the 'warm degradation' problem that ruins the 30kwh Leaf for most people. At this point that seems to me a lot like Magical Thinking. I'll be leasing a 2018 Leaf with the expectation that it will lose 20-40% capacity in three years - probably closer to 40%. I only need about 70 miles of Winter range and 100 miles of Summer range, so that isn't crazy of me, but I pity those who lease (or especially BUY) one with 100+ mile long term range needs.
 
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If this is your climate, then it is close to mine. Not very warm.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
As far as never seeing much over 6 TBs, that is due more to a VERY conservative fast charge profile than any cooling of the pack. On the 30 kwh LEAF with a much more aggressive fast charge profile, its easy to get to 8,9 or 10 TBs.
I have an S30 Leaf and have never seen TBs that high. Some combination of clean living, NW weather, and very little QC charging, I suppose. ;)
 
Dooglas said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
As far as never seeing much over 6 TBs, that is due more to a VERY conservative fast charge profile than any cooling of the pack. On the 30 kwh LEAF with a much more aggressive fast charge profile, its easy to get to 8,9 or 10 TBs.
I have an S30 Leaf and have never seen TBs that high. Some combination of clean living, NW weather, and very little QC charging, I suppose. ;)

And lack of 400 mile days! ;)
 
I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.

Aside from those in really hot climates, most of the people who will get those replacement batteries either can't get by on the severely reduced range they will have to endure for long periods while waiting, or can barely do so. Driving an EV isn't supposed to be about constant range anxiety while waiting for a relatively brief respite from a new battery that itself will then degrade rapidly.
 
LeftieBiker said:
eatsleafsandshoots said:
I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.

Aside from those in really hot climates, most of the people who will get those replacement batteries either can't get by on the severely reduced range they will have to endure for long periods while waiting, or can barely do so. Driving an EV isn't supposed to be about constant range anxiety while waiting for a relatively brief respite from a new battery that itself will then degrade rapidly.

That's totally fair. I just to happen to be in a situation where 70-80% range would be temporarily acceptable. If you're one of those folks, and you don't mind the taste of service department coffee, I don't really see a downside, especially if you were in a rebate state and didn't pay full price.
 
eatsleafsandshoots said:
That's totally fair. I just to happen to be in a situation where 70-80% range would be temporarily acceptable. If you're one of those folks, and you don't mind the taste of service department coffee, I don't really see a downside, especially if you were in a rebate state and didn't pay full price.

Agreed, and I'm in the same boat. I could easily live with 50% range on my 2017 S and it looks like I may get to test that out in the future. But I'm still elated with the car since I got a ton of incentives and it's just my 'around town' car. I admit that the 30kWh battery appears to be a major loser but Nissan will have to own up to that as they sold them with what I consider a pretty good warranty. And I'm confidant they will be around in 8 years to honor that warranty if and when I need them to.
 
I admit that the 30kWh battery appears to be a major loser but Nissan will have to own up to that as they sold them with what I consider a pretty good warranty. And I'm confidant they will be around in 8 years to honor that warranty if and when I need them to.

If it were me I'd be concerned about software "updates" that might make that 9th bar stick around forever...or at least for 6 or 7 years.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I admit that the 30kWh battery appears to be a major loser but Nissan will have to own up to that as they sold them with what I consider a pretty good warranty. And I'm confidant they will be around in 8 years to honor that warranty if and when I need them to.

If it were me I'd be concerned about software "updates" that might make that 9th bar stick around forever...or at least for 6 or 7 years.

I've thought about that too but hopefully it won't come to that. If the EV market does take off in the future it doesn't seem like it would be worth the hit to Nissan's reputation. Another worry is that they didn't figure it out until it's too late and the 40kWh batteries will be just as bad. If it's just 2016 and 2017 that have a problem they can probably swallow that but if they shipped a dud and didn't know it then they are capable of anything. I'm old enough to remember the Ford Pinto so nothing will really surprise me.
 
I've thought about that too but hopefully it won't come to that. If the EV market does take off in the future it doesn't seem like it would be worth the hit to Nissan's reputation. Another worry is that they didn't figure it out until it's too late and the 40kWh batteries will be just as bad. If it's just 2016 and 2017 that have a problem they can probably swallow that but if they shipped a dud and didn't know it then they are capable of anything. I'm old enough to remember the Ford Pinto so nothing will really surprise me.

I'm a Geezer too - I remember the Corvair, although I was a kid then. It looks like I'll be leasing a 40kwh Leaf, and I may go so far as to get Silver instead of red, and put in lighter seat covers and a solar ventilator, to try to keep the car cooler. I can afford to lose a third of its capacity (at most) but with the low residual and high payment I'll be pretty unhappy if I have to return the car instead of buying it off lease.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I may go so far as to get Silver instead of red, and put in lighter seat covers and a solar ventilator, to try to keep the car cooler.

I've seen contradictory posts about this (shocking, I know :shock: ). Some posters recommend getting a light-colored car to prolong battery life; other people write that it really doesn't matter, because the temp of a parked battery is based on ambient temps, and not on the cabin air temp.

I bought a white leaf, partially based on the advice of the former. But I'm revisiting the question, as I am considering building a car port. I live in Minnesota, where there is a hot season, but it's short.
 
I'm thinking that an interior that's ten degrees hotter than it would otherwise be will add heat to the pack if the temps are sustained over several hours or more. I'm still trying to estimate the relative heat absorption of the bright red vs the bright blue, but will probably still try for Brilliant Silver. I'm used to that color.
 
There is no thermal connection between the cabin air and the pack.
There is an air gap between frame and battery. Also cabin air is heavily
insulated by carpet. Cabin can be at 80*C and it will not heat the pack at all.
Also heat raises up. Surface on which Leaf is parked means much more.
Usually it is very hot right before vehicle parks over it. Luckily, if there is any
wind, it will blow heat away. Again...with hot air right from the sides of parked space.
 
arnis said:
There is no thermal connection between the cabin air and the pack.
There is an air gap between frame and battery. Also cabin air is heavily
insulated by carpet. Cabin can be at 80*C and it will not heat the pack at all.
Also heat raises up. Surface on which Leaf is parked means much more.
Usually it is very hot right before vehicle parks over it. Luckily, if there is any
wind, it will blow heat away. Again...with hot air right from the sides of parked space.

I hope that you are right, but since a hellishly hot cabin is unpleasant anyway, I'm going to try to keep it cooler.
 
North America is a bit warmer in Summer than is Estonia, I think. I was planning to look for a solar window ventilator, and to use light grey seat covers in Summer.
 
No really, two window slits will allow hottest air to evacuate (roof portion). Yea, NA is hotter mostly.
But to make things very chilly, get partial solar blanket(s) for those windows that are not tinted.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aluminum-Film-Cotton-Car-Snow-Cover-Half-Size-Top-Front-Window-Visor-Blind-Screen-Windscreen-Ice/32519657346.html
Full vehicle cover is too cumbersome.
 
arnis said:
There is no thermal connection between the cabin air and the pack.

This should be easy to test: park a black and a white Leaf for an 8-hour workday. Open inspection port in each and shoot the battery with an IR thermometer.
 
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